Poll: Should local communities be able to reduce speed limits by 10mph like a Norfolk MP hopes?

Thetford Community Speedwatch team start their training.
Margaret Rutter uses the radar.

Photo: Sonya Duncan Thetford Community Speedwatch team start their training. Margaret Rutter uses the radar. Photo: Sonya Duncan

Monday, August 11, 2014
3:53 PM

Communities could be handed increased powers to lower speed limits in their towns and villages after a Norfolk MP called on ministers to take action.

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Case Study

The death of a Sheringham High School pupil earlier this year has given fresh urgency to a long-running campaign for a lower speed limit on the A148 near the resort.

Martha Seaward, 15, was crossing the busy road in January when she was hit by a lorry.

The driver has since been given a formal warning for speeding by the police.

The stretch of road, near its junction with Lodge Hill and the entrance to the National Trust’s Sheringham Park, had been the subject of a long-running speed-limit campaign before the tragedy. The national speed limit currently applies, meaning that vehicles can travel up to 60mph.

“We would like to see the limit reduced to 40mph,” said Martha’s mum, Karen Seaward, of Coronation Road, Holt.

• She has launched a Justice for Martha Facebook campaign and part of its aim is to achieve a speed limit reduction on the road. Nearly 650 people have signed her petition.

Richard Bacon, MP for South Norfolk, has written to Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin to urge him to give residents the right to have speed limits on roads within their parish boundaries slashed by 10mph.

Based on the Community Rights in the Localism Act, he said requests would be weighted in favour of the community unless police raised objections on safety grounds.

In an announcement released today, Mr Bacon said: “Over the years, I have had many constituents contact me regarding speed limits on local roads which they want to see reduced.

“Local highways authorities often reply that there have been too few accidents to warrant a reduction in the speed limit but I believe local people know what is best for their communities. They want action before people are hurt, not afterwards.

“The Localism Act already provides local people with the ‘Community Right to Bid’ and the ‘Community Right to Challenge’, both of which have been embraced a means of giving residents greater control of their own locality.

“A ‘Community Right to Reduce Speed’ would be a positive step in reducing road casualties and protecting local residents, and I can think of several parishes in my constituency where such a right would be seized with both hands”.

Reaction from community speedwatch groups was mixed, with some welcoming increased local input, but others warning that any roads reduced to 20mph would be hard to enforce.

Margaret Rutter, from Thetford Community Speedwatch, warned that the police-endorsed groups were not allowed to monitor 20mph zones.

“It’s good that the MP is looking to lower speed limits as speeding is clearly a problem in communities. But they also have to look at the way these things are enforced and the regulations surrounding speedwatch groups in particular.

“We know from people speaking to us that 20mph speed limits are often ignored and they have to be monitored,” she said.

Campaigners in Sheringham and Thorpe St Andrew welcomed the move, saying it would give “more leverage” to councillors to use their local knowledge effectively.

Let us know what you think of Mr Bacon’s plea in the comments section below.

50 comments

  • it's already hard enough to go places in this country without the village elders setting the speed limits. Residents setting limits would be a good idea if residents weren't 150-year-old speed haters who want to reduce speed limits by 10 mph. If limits in places were reduced anymore people wouldn't be able to go anywhere in this country.

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    Z:)

    Friday, August 15, 2014

  • Sorry, meant "The chances of a pedestrian being hit and KILLED by a car travelling at 30mph is 45%, for 20mph, its just 5%"

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    Crazy

    Thursday, August 14, 2014

  • No, but ALL RESIDENTIAL areas should be 20mph, not 30. The chances of a pedestrian being hit by a car travelling at 30mph is 45%, for 20mph, its just 5%. There does however need to be some distinction between residential and built up areas. As Daisy Roots said, a 20mph limit through Filby would be absurd, but the residential roads for the new builds in that area should be 20mph.

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    Crazy

    Thursday, August 14, 2014

  • Certain places need lower speed limits; some could actually be safely increased. It's all a matter of straightforward common sense and there is no blanket answer.

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    The man on the Clapham Omnibus

    Wednesday, August 13, 2014

  • The comment about Suffolk is very relevant as they introduced blanket speed limits across entire parishes even A roads that bypass the village centre. A bit of thought is required relating to speed limits and residents should not have the power to set speed limits. Of course they should have a say though.

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    JohnnyH

    Tuesday, August 12, 2014

  • There is no point of any speed restricted areas street if they are not enforced or drivers do not bare to finepoints consequences for breaching speed limited, or police are not present to enforce limits. Government and driver lobbies are anti speed cameras. So sceptical, its good local politics, but toothless.

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    Rob Whittle

    Tuesday, August 12, 2014

  • 308GT4, I suggest you look at the highway code, which will tell you a) speed limits do not apply to non-motorised vehicles and b) there is no requirement for cyclists to use bike lanes - a good job as a lot of them are overgrown, full of glass and more dangerous than the roads - even when they are populated with entitled and impatient drivers.

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    icehockeyhair

    Tuesday, August 12, 2014

  • We need to be looking at ways to speed up the traffic, not slow it down

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    Norfolk John

    Tuesday, August 12, 2014

  • How about using the unemployed to walk in front of cars waving red flags in the situations where lower speed is required ;) All jokes aside I now live in a major US city. Most of our surface streets (non residential) are 45mph limit. Although the bigger wider roads mean I have not seen a traffic jam in a long time because things are moving along well when accidents do happen they are very serious even with modern safe cars. The motto is speed kills regardless of whether it is yourself or a little kid that walks out into the road.

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    freaky_gerbil

    Tuesday, August 12, 2014

  • This is about respect for others, a quality sadly often in short supply. It is certainly most frustrating to live along a 30 mph road where the average vehicle speed is around 40 mph with some vehicles touching 60 mph. There is little compliance and even less effective enforcement!

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    hardhatharry

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Here we go again - all the 'do gooders' at it! All speed limits should be abolished but penalties following a fault accident or police observed dangerous act should bear penal punishment, even vehicle crushing. The remark about Middloeton Lane is amusing and the complainant should contact the stupid parish council who supported ridiculous mini-roundabouts which lorris and busues can't negotiate without mounting them: no ban here on HGVs. Why? Another point. Are cyclists (e.g. Barry Wiggins look-alikes) going to be prosecuted for exceeding speed limits, and failing to use cycle paths? Obviously not. Why doesn't Norwich City Council, hell bent on destroying trade in Norwich, insist only pedal cars come in to Norwich. Cynical me? Yes

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    308GT4

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Nick..I dont recall anything in my comment stating i exceed speed limits. What I wont be part of is the ever increasing group who constantly drive dangerously below the speed limit. It should be classed as an offence to be driving too slow for road conditions which is why speed limits should be changed to neither exceed or drive 10mph below a limit so a current 50mph would then be shown as 40-50. Anyone driving under 40 would then be fined as well as those going over 50. End of!

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    getalife

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • @Andy T Apart from the fact most cyclists struggle to go faster than 20 mph you really should scrub up on your highway code. Speedlimits have only every applied to motorized traffic. Never cycles or horses. So those few who can cycle faster than 20mph are not breaking any rules. And why is this? Because bikes are around 50x less likely to kill and over 100x less likely to seriously injure someone than a car. If that wasn't the case I dare say speed limits would not be needed, unfortunately though that not the way it is. Around 1800 people are killed each year, and speeding is i believe a factor in something like 60pc of them.

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    monkeynuts

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • …..Hard to imagine how you can cope with the driving conditions here on earth young person! ….The speed limit along a 30mph is already in place!...It is 00mph (stationary or parked) to 30mph unless signs are erected to tell a different story!....This applies to 20mph, 40mph, 50mph roads in addition! ….Exceeding those limits is contrary to the law!...reminders are sited along the way so no one has an excuse to go faster!....It is the nervous drivers , the inexperienced drivers, those that don't have a train to catch, who make up the traffic on our roads along with the impatient, texting, phone in hand, uninsured , without MOTs, who left starting out early enough and want to make up time, Kami Kasi Motor cyclists, they have to share the roads with!.... Those that want to break the law are the problem, not those that abide by it!.....

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    Stew Pydsodd

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • 'getalife' You should get a life! Quote 'Norfolk is full of doddery slow drivers' What kind of attitude is that for a driver! A good driver anticipates driving conditions which includes the ability to understand that others may be slower than them, particularly on the smaller roads talked of here. The two examples of the road through Filby and the road at Rollesby are made more dangerous by this lack of understanding that care has to be taken. Both these roads have recently had new signs asking the very question 'How safe is your driving?' Not very safe if you are breaking the existing 30 mph limits and very unsafe if you then ignore some of the most dangerous parts such as Martham Crossroads where the national speed limit is often exceeded at a junction which has seen too many horrendous accidents. These roads are easy to drive, just drive well, you won't get anywhere any faster

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    Nick

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Local councils can set their own speed limits with clear signs all they like, but it won’t get to root of the problem ... speeders. Same people that disregard 30 miles per hour will disregard 20 miles per hour, so unsafe offending is really not solved. New speed limit signs are not going to create level of tangible safety required. Inconsistency between speed limits in different areas will cause more ambiguity and noncompliance. Sworn police officers need to proactively enforce motoring laws currently on the books to slow down violators not amateurish community volunteers in hi vis safety vests deployed on the cheap. As originally created, central government needs to go back to “ring fencing” vehicle excise duty and reinvesting road hydrocarbon oil duty to wholly fund all local public road safety improvements and traffic policing units to increase safety for all road users not notoriously be siphoned off taxpayers for other government purposes as is the case today. Modern politics is problem by not correctly funding continuous road upgrades and encouraging robust enforcement of existing laws using road tax dividends. Like illegal immigrants, lack of competent enforcement in effect endorses thus perpetuates illegal behavior.

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    J. Harry

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • The real problem is rotten roads and poor traffic planning, coupled with suspension damage caused by the councils obsession with road humps,even if you stick to the speed limit! Accidents are caused by human error full stop! if you make a mistake at speed the accident will be worse,but speed by itself does not cause accidents,and never has,whatever the statistics say! speed cameras are there for fleecing motorists,and have nothing,repeat NOTHING to do with road safety,in fact around many of these things accident statistics are worse because motorists overreact on seeing them! [as they would to characters in reflective jackets pointing radar guns at them!]

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    Harry Rabinowitz

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Theres absolutely no need for this. Norfolk is full of doddery slow drivers anyway. What they should be looking at is making it an offence to drive slower than the limit within 10 MPH so when one is in a 50 MPH speed limit for example then it should be changed to 4050 limit. Anyone driving below as well as over these limits should be fined.

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    getalife

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • .....Filby needs a Bypass!.....

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    Stew Pydsodd

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Isn't this how Suffolk "managed" their problem, by just reducing speed limits. No traffic calming or anything else. Just frustrates motorists who then get impatient and overtake when they shouldn't. Drop the speed to 20mph and you'll find yourself being overtaken by lycra clad cyclists..the speed limit is obviously optional for them!.

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    Andy T

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • You don't drive through these villages to get to the A1! Had you read my earlier post you would see that part of the problem is lack of investment in GY on the long awaited duelling of the A47 and the long proposed link road between the A149 and the A47 at Caister. All of which should have been done long before. Only local traffic should be using the roads mentioned. I despair! It works in most other countries such as Germany and France, yet here we continue to want to ruin villages by trying to force ever more traffic down roads that have no chance of being made suitable for todays fast moving cars. I use both the roads mentioned here all the time and slowing down is not a problem it makes no difference at all to journey times.

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    Nick

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Great idea 20mph through all villages! It would increase the time to get to the A1 to go north to about a week using the A17. Many of these roads through the villages are "A" roads, there's a clue there, if you want to check the highway code. Lets face it the speed limits are irrelevant most of the time as there's no one to enforce them, bottom line is a politician trying to get publicity.

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    Tony

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Dosen't matter who speeds, local or not. What you need are decent measures to ensure compliance. This means continental style road calming, totally effective and so much better than the terribly designed half-baked road humps. In France if you miss the sign you break your car! people there drive at 20mph in villages and 60mph on the open road. The villages are improved and pleasant places to live and that is controlled at a local level. The people who live there say what they want and passing drivers have to accept it. Simple!

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    Nick

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • No one seems to have made the point that the experience of those Speedwatch schemes already in operation in Norfolk is that the majority of those caught speeding actually live in the parish where the speeding is detected.

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    Old Hand

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • A lot of nonsense. But also some good points like: MPs just woken up - an election coming - 'look at me, I am DOING something ..."; mjc 'No Entry signs would solve the problem..' Like that one. But why is everyone so obsessed with the numbers 1-nought, 2-nought, 3- nought or 4-nought is not the question - what really matters is driving SAFELY. Shouldn't be a need for speed limits if people all drive safely. I'll repeat that: SAFELY.

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    Patrick

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Rather the " curtain twitcher " than the selfish , irresponsible , phallically challenged , jumped up Jeremy Clarksons who never made the grade to be a racing driver or who have no idea of appropriate speed as they don't give a hoot about anyone else's safety.

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    LARSON.E. WHIPSNADE

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • speed limits should reflect the whole spectrum of traffic on our roads, which does not only include cars, but sadly bicycles who in most cases have no seperate cycle path. Then there are tractors and other agricultural vehicles toads just have to get used to in a rural area. Not to forget pedestrians who now and then would like to, or better dare, to cross the road. My parish council tried for 50 years to get a footpath into the village from our 18 houses, we have the highest amount of kids here, still nothings being done to alleviate the dangers, despite having had two fatalities. Cllr. Gunson is solely concerned with potholes and getting re elected, not children who have to be driven to school costing us all, because provisions for children, who do not vote, is dimally bad in Norfolk. Its a petty measure that comes too late.

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    ingo wagenknecht

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Read the article! They are NOT talking about a 10MPH speed limit, but a reduction of 10MPH, Presently in Rollesby the limit is 30 mph. Just stand on the side of this road for a while to see what speed people actually do. People only slow down because there is often an APR Camera , Why is that? Because people go past the school at ridiculous speeds. Forced traffic calming is the only solution. 20MPH is fast enough here! Why would you want to go faster? or could you live with the consequences of being responsible for the death of a school child! It's crazy what's wrong with all you folk! Good driving includes staying within your capabilities, staying within the law and where possible making progress. What I see is people doing 40 in a 30 area and then staying at a slow speed when the limit is 60. The average speed on these types of local roads is therefore relatively low, so allow enough time for your journey.

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    Nick

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • I sorta have no problem with this. I think its important for those who have to put up with dangerous motorists should have more power to do something about it. That said, its equally important that powers are not missused. Many villages have straight, predictable A roads traveling though them. I see no logical reason to change their speedlimits. But, complicated roads that cut though busy areas should be tamed, and local people (not motorists) should have a say.

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    monkeynuts

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Here, here, Dave. Racking in £60 for some motorists going at 14 mph in these new zones is nothing but another tax

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    weaversway

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Mr Bacon, Your Government continually targets the motorist financially so why not spend some on decent Roads and Bye passes!!! A 10 mph limit enforced by some by Bored old jobsworth wont help!!

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    dave123

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Maybe, but just as important is the appalling driver on our road. Tourists speeding down lane as if they will never meet something coming the other way, elderly, mainly men, driving high powered and large cars. Even had some very old guy driving a heavy industrial digger for all the world oblivious to anybody else. It's these the police should tackle. That's when they leave the police stations. A proper copper is as rare a sight as a flying pig - no pun intended

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    weaversway

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Old people with too much time on their hands who will literally do anything to secure their house prices.

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    Steady On

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • No Nick-residents of linear villages like Filby and many others on important routes should not expect speeding but nor should they expect the countryside to be trashed for bypasses so that they can live in houses built on infill alongside the route By all means build off the main route and ensure safe junctions but expecting essential journeys to crawl for miles at thirty on A class roads because it is a dinky place to live is not on. Obviously 20mph in residential streets is a good idea, but not through routes-they need an emphasis on other measures to improve safety for pedestrians cyclists etc.

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    Daisy Roots

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Communities do not necessarily know what is the appropriate speed limit for they area. In many cases, they resent the volume of traffic passing through their locality and want to punish motorists by making them crawl past their houses like serfs before their Master.The usual Left wing clap trap spouted by certain people just shows how wrong they are on this subject, as they are with everything else in life.

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    broadsman

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • "....The governments own figures quote speed as a factor of 4% as a factor in accidents....". They do NOT . This figure is taken from STATS19 data , which are the result of a form completed by a policeman at the side of the road. They are not investigations into the causes of accidents and as the authors of these reports make perfectly clear many instances of speeding are recorded as " sudden braking " , " loss of control " and even " in a hurry ". As the authors point out , speed is therefore under represented as a cause of accidents.

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    LARSON.E. WHIPSNADE

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Great Idea! 20mph in urban streets is the norm in most european countries. Living on a side road in town I often see people exceeding 40 in a 30 area. The way to 'enforce' this is by decent traffic calming systems that force people to proceed at slow speed. These are so much better than some of the half baked speed humps we see locally that confuse everyone and do little to make the streets safe. Watching traffic at Rollesby is frightening and the number of accidents here is large. An ideal place to put in a proper 20mph system. It makes NO difference to journey time and would undoubtedly make life a lot more pleasant for people who live there. Filby as mentioned is another prime example. Had the county built the proposed link road between the A47 & A149 and made decent improvements (dual) to the Acle straights, traffic would be greatly reduced through Fiby. That has not happened but that does not mean that people in Filby should tolerate high speeds. The schemes I have seen elsewhere would improve things for us all.

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    Nick

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • What rubbish 10 MPH would cause more problem due to low gear driving. This is a crazy idea. Only the police should be able to book a motorist not a member of the general public.

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    G3MWV

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • OK So we live in Middletons Lane we have 3 schools 2 Scout Huts. We have HGV speeding through the lane and cutting up roundabouts etc, we have some careless drivers speeding and I say some and in general its a short cut rat run from Fakenham road to the oter side of the city etc. One cure. Speed Ramps. a dead cert. The number of kids and others harmed by accidents on this road goes up and up.

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    edifir

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Totally agree with Larson E.W. - Similarly "V"'s comment on snitches highlights the appalling attitude by some towards road safety in our local communities. I've 'hand timed' cars doing 60 in our 30 zone - sometimes only feet away from children on the pavement - and have reported this to the police .... nothing! So do we wait until a child is killed? Some of the driving we see around Gorleston - speeding, use of phones, light jumping, dangerous and inconsiderate parking and stupid road rage is as bad I've seen anywhere. But I don't believe that local communities should take charge - we pay our local and other tax and plenty of it - so why aren't the council and enforcement agencies looking after us in this regard.

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    wallywalnut

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • So this is being taken up on safety grounds, you can't hold all the car driving community responsible, not all car drivers speed, however if it is really being done on safety grounds then pedestrians should be taught the correct way to cross our roads, cyclists should have to sit a test ( written and practical ) to ensure they understand road safety, and then theres the electric scooter users.....don't just blame the car driver they are only one piece in the puzzle.

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    Cromer cranky

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • OK HH is it not the case that when a planning application is entered the planners look at the line of sight from the access point and also consider the capability of the roads to carry the additional traffic safely? If I was on a parish council and had a chance of some building plots I would be glad to see a 30mph through a village. Of course many places warrant a 30mph but a 20mph is unnecessary other than in places where children are using the road in numbers . Places like Fordham in Cambs have a very useful time controlled 20mph outside the school but Downham has a 24hr 20mph and speed humps to crack the nut of speeding outside the school and leisure centre. A good rule ought to have been no development on main routes-look at East Winch and Middleton for instance. They were very sparsely populated in the 50s and 60s until West Norfolk council handed their pals planning permissions-now with an A47 bypass still a castle in the sky the residents face dodging heavy traffic on a trunk road every time they want to go somewhere. But handing speed limit options to community groups is giving it to the unelected and unaccountable. It is like having the village politburo in communist Russia or People's committees in Mao's China.

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    Daisy Roots

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • I think speed traps are best left to the professionals,once members of the public start taking the law into their own hands,where will it end? Nobody condones reckless driving,but the state sees fit to penalise speed and seems to ignore human error or poor decisions as a cause of accidents! The governments own figures quote speed as a factor of 4% as a factor in accidents,but it is easy to enforce,and looks good on statistics,the accountants like it,and the public and the forces of law and order can be seen to be "doing something about road accidents" Sadly most of them are caused by human error,and as long as people make mistakes whatever their speed you will get accidents!

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    Harry Rabinowitz

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Same old keyboard warriors spouting outdated clap trap about a subject many of them have never even researched properly.

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    HappisburghHarry

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • Be careful of what you wish for. A lower speed limit on your local road could result in you being caught driving over the limit too. Its a proven fact your attention drops the closer to home you are when driving and familiarity could see you driving as normal, but too quickly for the new limit. Yes the limit is there for residents as well as those passing through. I bet near schools and houses the most offenders would be parents on the school run or residents.

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    KeithS

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • When I saw this article I thought oh, no not Archants Favourite Pin-up Girl Chloe Smith again, thankfully she is not even mentioned. She must have got run over :p by a speeding Motrorist...

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    che bramley

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • NO ENTRY signs at the end of each road would solve the problem,wouldn't it ? I,m expecting that to be the next suggestion!!

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    mjc

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • then we will be able to see who the real "snitches" are !.

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    "V"

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • You can reduce it to 5 mph if you want, but it wouldn't make one iota of difference and there's no enforcement. No one takes a scrap of notice of speed limits; I have a flashing 20mph sign near mine and it is totally ignored by motorists.

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    Vic Sponge

    Monday, August 11, 2014

  • wrong inso many ways because these speed control freaks often have a bee in their bonnet and there is more to speed limits than what suits who lives where. Take Filby- the A class road through the village is the only alternative to the A47, it is impossible to by pass but infill ribbon development has been allowed house after house in the last twenty years. It needs a 30mph but people knew what they were buying and a 20 would be absurd. Then we have another local community where a few fanatics get out with speed guns-yet the road has wide pavements, is a former A class road and there is no speeding problem. There are however few proper crossing places where they are needed, an absence of cycle paths and some bus stops are in bad places. Vested interests on parish councils can use speed limits to help justify planning consents on highway grounds. Yes 20 mph near schools with narrow roads but speed limits should be set after objective research by impartial bodies.

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    Daisy Roots

    Monday, August 11, 2014

The views expressed in the above comments do not necessarily reflect the views of this site

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