No need to rush a decision on Norfolk incinerator, say the plant’s opponents

The proposed incinerator site at Saddlebow. Picture: Ian Burt. The proposed incinerator site at Saddlebow. Picture: Ian Burt.

Tuesday, March 11, 2014
3:12 PM

Campaigners against the incinerator have responded to a plea by leaders at Norfolk County Council for a decision on the burner - by urging the man in whose hands the plant’s fate rests to take his time.

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Communities secretary Eric Pickles had been due to make a decision on the King’s Lynn incinerator on January 14, but two months on and he has yet to make an announcement.

The planning application for the burner at Saddlebow was “called in” by the government in August 2012 after a record number of people wrote in.

An inquiry was held last spring and the report of the inspector who headed the probe reached Mr Pickles’ desk in the autumn. A decision had been expected on or before January 14.

County council leader George Nobbs, Labour, his Liberal Democrat deputy James Joyce and Conservative Bev Spratt, the chairman of the council’s environment, waste, transport and development overview and scrutiny panel, had written to Mr Pickles calling for him to announce his decision.
The letter states: “It seems wholly unreasonable to withhold your decision, whatever that decision may be, in the knowledge that the county council as a direct result is prejudiced financially by the delay.”

But councillors who are against the incinerator have written a letter of their own to Mr Pickles, saying that Mr Nobbs dies not speak for them.

That letter, signed by Conservative John Dobson, UKIP group leader Toby Coke, Liberal Democrat Tim East, Green councillor Andrew Boswell and independents Alexandra Kemp and Richard Bird, states that they do not agree that is is “wholly unreasonable” for the decision to be withheld, or that the county council is prejudiced financially by the delay.

They state: “The planning application for the only other incinerator which Cory Wheelabrator has built in this country (at Bexley) was equally complex and took substantially longer to resolve (a total of 12 years), so no one can complain that the time being taken now by you and your staff to ensure the correct decision is anything other than the norm.”

They say the £30m penalty figure, which they describe as “inflated” would be “dwarfed” by the savings to be made by choosing an alternative technology.

They add that, with a further vote on whether to press ahead with the scheme due next month, the delay “offers the council a further vote next month to come out of this now widely and publicly discredited contract altogether, with massive net savings, not costs, all of which will restore faith in the county council’s processes.”

Meanwhile, the county council’s environment, transport and development overview and scrutiny panel agreed, on the casting vote of chairman Mr Spratt, to send a delegation to visit Mr Pickles asking him to make a decision.

The committee agreed to send Mr Spratt and his vice-chairman Mr Boswell on that trip, although Green councillor Mr Boswell, a long-standing opponent of the incinerator said, should the meeting go ahead, he would tell Mr Pickles his view that the burner should not go ahead.

Against that backdrop, a spokesman for the Department for Communities and Local Government, said: “A decision will be made by ministers in due course. At present, ministers are carefully considering all the evidence and detailed representations from a wide range of parties, following the receipt of the planning inspector’s report.”

• What’s your view on the incinerator saga? Write, giving full contact details, to Letters Editor, Prospect House, Rouen Road, Norwich NR1 1RE.

66 comments

  • Alecto out with the rude insults as usual. The incinerator is being built. Fact.

    Report this comment

    Percy Cuted

    Friday, March 14, 2014

  • And another thing Mr 'Honest John' where on earth is all this other guff about the BBC etc ? And where is all the talk about things getting rough? Not sure what you are on about mate. I think you have your wires crossed as usual because there is nothing here to that effect. Get your facts right and then say something but stop making it up as you go along. Or stop calling yourself 'honest'. Just a bit of advice like you like to give. You can run off to the moderators again now and report absolutely nothing again like you do every day. Sad.

    Report this comment

    Del Boy

    Wednesday, March 12, 2014

  • Interesting that you should mention Bill Daws.... I read about him in the Lynn News not so long ago. In fact, you can still search his name and see the stories connected with him. The wonders of modern technology.

    Report this comment

    User Removed

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • It's good to see that the new Independent group are to receive an allocation of seats on NCC committees, especially as it means Labour loses two seats & the Cons one.

    Report this comment

    Bikerboy

    Friday, March 14, 2014

  • (Regards to old Jeff 'down the pub' by the way!)

    Report this comment

    User Removed

    Wednesday, March 12, 2014

  • There's democracy in local politics? Go on pull the other one.

    Report this comment

    alecto

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • democrat

    Friday, March 14, 2014

  • My involvement with computers and programming spans some 40 years and of course there are always a few individuals that attempt to defeat moderation systems and abuse them as the anti campaigners have in order to give a skewed result. In this case to give the general view that most are against the incinerator when in fact the support for it appears to be overwhelming. It works until the moderators are made aware of the situation.

    Report this comment

    Professor Miles Radcliffe

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • A bigger facility here would probably be a better option for the future so if they did increase the site plan by say 50% it would take care of any future increased capacity requirements. Yes a good idea in principle. That extra time has certainly given the developers room for thought.

    Report this comment

    Inactive account

    Wednesday, March 12, 2014

  • The only people abusing the moderator are those who choose to hide behind obscene names! Now from what Del Boy, inactive account - I LOVE THAT NAME - and the Right Reverend Fuller are saying it appears that they have all had their wrist slapped and been forwarded complaints from a bunch of anti's. Rather strange that because if a comment is reported the moderator only sends an email to the poster of the reported comment, I know from experience when the supporters have objected to my observations, which gives a reason for rejection, usually other in my case, and the post that has been rejected! The moderator does not send on the actual complaint lodged for the poster to examine and challenge unfortunately.

    Report this comment

    Canary Boy

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • Fly Tipper. Cambridge was diverted to incinerators at Kent and Midlands and now their MBT plant is up and running will result in a further shortage of feedstock to incinerators. Wattonlad has explained plastics is a valuable commodity and recycling will be detrimental to councils with incinerators who are tied up with penalty clauses. Amsterdam incinerator does not have enough feedstock to meet their obligation to supply energy to residents and businesses and face paying penalties.

    Report this comment

    NCIS

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • Eric Pickles is a busy man has had to prioritise, flood victims or Cory Wheelabrators shareholders!

    Report this comment

    Interpol

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • Alex Kemp, John Dobson etc are right. There's no need for Mr Pickles to rush in to a decision, he needs time to consider the evidence and make sure he is making the right decision. You would have thought Gnobbs would have known better than to keep harassing the SOS to make his mind up. Have some patience.

    Report this comment

    Bikerboy

    Wednesday, March 12, 2014

  • Del Boy. It is now obvious by your remarks you never attended any meetings and proves your are just a wind up merchant. The few pro-incinerator supporters have not submitted any evidence to dispel fears of living close to an incinerator but done the reverse. At the public inquiry one supporter had explained he had visited Cory Wheelabrator incinerator at Belvedere, but this is a different process and hardly any lorry movements unlike the proposed incinerator at Kings Lynn. Consensus! Another supporter explained he thought the referendum was not handled properly but the electoral commission had investigated and say otherwise. Again hardly any support at the planning application and Cory Wheelabrator must have felt badly let down. Political meltdown of pro-incinerator county councillors proves beyond reasonable doubt the public do not want an incinerator and hit them in the ballot box. The icing on the cake after standing down from NCC Derrick Murphy was interviewed by the BBC and he said the incinerator is in the wrong location.

    Report this comment

    Knee deep In Toxic ash

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • Fenscape, it makes sense to ignore him. He is a complete irrelevance anyway.

    Report this comment

    democrat

    Wednesday, March 12, 2014

  • I am not liking way this campaign is going isn’t it. If people want to give opinion and they do not break rules then they should have say. Why have anti campaign adopted this tactic of bully boy trying to silence free speech. At least we see them for what they are isn’t it. Next time Mr Pickle is in one of my shop I am telling him as well.

    Report this comment

    Mr Raj Patel

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • Would be nice to see the pro commenter actually comment on the article for a change! I hear that Adams & Wilby looked rather silly when it became clear that the excellent Cllr Boswell, who they wanted to visit Mr Pickles to plead for a hasty announcement, has turned out to be a signatory of a letter to the same pointing out that there should be no haste in any decision making. Additionally we have 2 cllrs going to London Spratt, who is on the same educational level as Jor.dan, and Dr Boswell a highly educated, eloquent man. I wonder which of the 2 will make the more credible case?? The other question has 2 b why Borrett has volunteered Spratt as the representative for the Conservative group, could it be that he is protecting his future political carear by avoiding personally upsetting a government minister???

    Report this comment

    Canary Boy

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • Tanks for the up-date Per.cy (certainly not 'cute' though). Be a sweety and let us know where we can access the paperwork confirming your comments about the building of the incinerator. If you can't remember, perhaps your mates RajSchicklRich.111Prof.Miles or Rev.Full.er can help! You really are getting quite desperate aren't you?

    Report this comment

    Sandy.L

    Friday, March 14, 2014

  • Del Boy, I’m going to try and offer you some assistance. Take a look at your last two posts today “I see he is still on the loose and not rounded up yet. You dont have much time left matey so spend it on something worthwhile.” and “Nurse !! I've found him. Be quick” and then at a post you made last night “Perhaps I should send a few dozen comments from the anti campaigners about being mental and sick and all the rest of it to the press and BBC. Every week on here for starters.” Now, which leg are you attempting to stand on to get attention? I was at the public inquiry the first few days, last few days and some in between, there weren’t any security staff but he press and BBC were there, and the delightful lady Inspector, so “As for that inquiry things were rough and the security staff were busy enough from what I saw. The anti brigade are the ones spreading lies and insults from what I see.” Do you understand why no one takes any notice of what you say, and how your posts may also lead people to think you are forgetful, easily confused, perhaps a little d.emented even? You take care now, you’re special old pal.

    Report this comment

    Honest John

    Wednesday, March 12, 2014

  • Proposed burners at Suffolk Cambridgeshire and Lincolnshire will be working under capacity because of shortage of feedstock and will be paying penalty clauses to incinerator companies. Plastics recycling companies will benefit from new EU legislation all plastics must be recycled. Most black bins are bulked up with plastic food trays, by recycling this product will mean the black bin waste should be collected every six months or longer. Mr Patel will know India has many chemical plants that convert plastic food trays to diesel fuel and intend to open many plants in Europe.

    Report this comment

    wattonlad

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • @Canary....glad we got that sorted out...! Anyway, back to the issue at hand. Nobbs is not fit for purpose, he will be facing a humiliating defeat in the chamber in April on the incinerator, and will no doubt be left will more egg on his face when the SOS decides to say No to the incinerator....doesn't matter whether he does this before the debate or after....it all points to the same thing, he is not in control, and he is deluded to think that he ever had control, he has contradicted his own position for everybody to see, he is thus unfit for purpose. I really don't know why he hasn't fallen on his sword already....what an humiliation!

    Report this comment

    Scooby

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • Time to turn the other cheek, 'Rev' - or should I say 'Inactive Account', depending on who you're logged in as?

    Report this comment

    User Removed

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • How very significant that Lloyds has now pulled out of the deal. If a banking institution can see the writing on the wall, why can't our friend from Downham?

    Report this comment

    User Removed

    Saturday, March 15, 2014

  • This decision will be political and will come out of the drawer at the right and opportune moment, that northern porcupine, as Cameronisaliar calls him, had years of good socialist training, he'll bide his time. Should politicians, who are not quiet sure of their allegiance, be termed to be trans-party politicians? Pickles and Nobbsy in one boat? George wearing his shirts open, never to be disfigured by the dreadful NCC ID card, after all, everyone should know who he is,.... definately qualifies as a multicoloured turncoat.

    Report this comment

    ingo wagenknecht

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • Am I the only anti to have been moderated? I certainly have not complained or publicly thrown my toys out of the pram when it happens I just had a think, reworded the point I was trying to make, and resubmitted it, job done! Didnt cross my mind to accuse anyone of subverting the press.

    Report this comment

    Canary Boy

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • Fly tipper MBT? Quote Letsrecycle “AmeyCespa is currently in the midst of ongoing legal action against BAM Nuttall, the contractor which installed the previous compost turning machinery which failed at the Waterbeach MBT plant. The machinery was manufactured by Austrian firm Kelag Umwelttechnik. Surrey-based construction provider BAM Nuttall won a £41 million contract to deliver the MBT plant in 2008 and was the principle contractor managing the supply chain including the composting process, design and machinery from Kelag” Ironic BAM Nuttall are the main contractor on the proposed Kings Lynn Incinerator! This information needs forwarding on to the NCC!

    Report this comment

    Interpol

    Friday, March 14, 2014

  • ...."now their MBT plant is up and running"....I'll wager a bet that it breaks down again within 6 months. I understand the Germans went down the MBT route and then dismissed it as a viable waste system. If the Germans can't make it work nobody can.

    Report this comment

    Rhombus

    Friday, March 14, 2014

  • Trouble with the old boy is he comes on here using about forty different names and claims everyone else is doing it. He seem clueless about the incinerator as though he read something once on the back of a cornflake box and now thinks he is in a position to give chapter and verse and anyone who knows more (just about everyone) he gets nasty with. He then comes on again under another name and agrees with himself. Now that is very sad. No wonder they all call him the own goal scorer down the pub. You just have to poke that with a stick dont you? This blog is liquid gold.

    Report this comment

    Del Boy

    Wednesday, March 12, 2014

  • Ignore HJ. He comes out with these types of yarns and quotes that do not exist on a very regular basis. No one takes him seriously any more. Just report the facts I always say.

    Report this comment

    Inactive account

    Wednesday, March 12, 2014

  • A statement issued by Tacolneston Parish Council in June 2012, said: “He (Mr Spratt) used every opportunity his position as a councillor and indeed as chairman of South Norfolk District Council afforded him to influence others to further his own interests.” I wonder why TacolnstonS pratt wants to be more involved now? Over to you Cllrs Borat and GNobbs.

    Report this comment

    Honest John

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • I'm still slightly confused about how one particular poster thinks they would ever have a chance of getting the SoS to overturn everything heard at a public Inquiry by sending in a couple of dribble-smudged printouts from the EDP? Obviously not living in the real world.

    Report this comment

    User Removed

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • I believe that you yourself have made grander claims than this in your time - didn't you say the PFI was coming back not so long ago?? And that the Inquiry was a formality and would be wrapped up within weeks of it ending? And that hordes of pro incinerator campaigners were turned away by the coachload from that same Inquiry? I think you did..... shall I go on?

    Report this comment

    User Removed

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • Let's be charitable now Canary Boy - when you start weaving such a complex web of whispers and misinformation along the lines of our friend 'D' I guess it must be very hard to stop after a while.

    Report this comment

    User Removed

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • And I suppose it has never crossed your mind that your posts are removed because you break the terms and conditions.

    Report this comment

    Bikerboy

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • As some one else recently said; "Well you might as well know. It cannot do any real harm. Bad day for the anti brigade. Yes a decision has been made. It is in favour of the developers and the scheme will go ahead. Follows on from some of the recommendations in the Planning Inspectors conclusions and reasons are all outlined. The PFI credits will be restored along with everything else in due course." Can it be true ?

    Report this comment

    Mr A. Schicklgruber

    Friday, March 14, 2014

  • He's totally lost the plot now.

    Report this comment

    Bikerboy

    Friday, March 14, 2014

  • Have you run out of ammo now, or will you just revert to type and change user IDs to start agreeing with yourself as usual?

    Report this comment

    User Removed

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • You have been proven wrong about many things D.

    Report this comment

    democrat

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • I can't believe George Nobbs, he stated on the radio this morning "that if a decision wasn't forthcoming soon, people would begin to loose their faith in local democracy". Just what planet does he live on? Please someone tell we lost our faith democracy a long, long, time ago, well before they tried to bulldoze the incinerator and the NDR through.

    Report this comment

    Catton Man

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • Well I can’t see what all the worry is about. According to leading anti campaigner Democrat it was all decided ages ago. He posted on this very site back in January - and I quote; “Pickles has made his decision. The decision has been made. On environmental grounds of course. Not wise. Just in the know” Mr Nobbs and the rest should pop round and have a word with this ‘in the know’ bloke.

    Report this comment

    Del Boy

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • Another load of it from 'Honest' John. Most people are already aware of the tall tales given to the press by the anti campaign. They do anything and everything to suppress any talk in support of the incinerator. They even resort to sending letters to the EDP editor and the moderators to have any comments removed they don't like. Then then call out for democracy. What a bunch of jokers. That is why they have lost the campaign. That is also why the Sec of States office have been told at great length what has been going on locally and you wont find it in any official report. Blame you own activists.

    Report this comment

    Del Boy

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • Poor 'D' - still polishing that old chestnut of sending material to Mr Pickles? You didn't, you haven't and you won't in future either. That would require a spine - a pencil 'tasche won't cut it I'm afraid.

    Report this comment

    User Removed

    Wednesday, March 12, 2014

  • Wasting your time. The old boy wont listen. Where do you think all of his comments were sent along with all his other user names ? No wonder they all call him the own goal scorer down the pub. Cory has a lot to thank him for. As I said before this blog is liquid gold.

    Report this comment

    Del Boy

    Wednesday, March 12, 2014

  • Short delay due to heavy workload by back room staff. Decision has been written up and is waiting in a box for signature. Well done to all those that worked so hard over the years and I am pleased that the re application for the return of the PFI credits can now be advanced. A welcome return of the Conservatives at NCC soon.

    Report this comment

    Jack Bantoft

    Friday, March 14, 2014

  • Fly Tipper. Cambridge waste diverted to incinerators at Kent and Midlands and now their MBT plant is up and running will result in a further shortage of feedstock to incinerators. Wattonlad has explained plastics is a valuable commodity and recycling will be detrimental to councils with incinerators who are tied up with penalty clauses. Amsterdam incinerator does not have enough feedstock to meet their obligation to supply energy to residents and businesses and face paying penalties.

    Report this comment

    NCIS

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • Think he's retired to bed with his cocoa - I wonder how many 'people' will be logging on first thing in the morning with a furious rebuttal of why the sun is actually the moon etc?

    Report this comment

    User Removed

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • Apart from the involvement of the ever sensible and sound Cllr Andrew Boswell, this idea of a delegation from NCC going to meet Eric Pickles is an absolute joke. I just wish that I could be a fly on the wall when the hardly erudite Cllr Beverley (S)pratt put his arguments to the Secretary of State. Is he going to give him a blast of "good old boy Norfolk commonsense" overriding the principles of the planning system? I don't recall BS being a great respecter of those principles in the past.

    Report this comment

    Nemesis

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • Well matey I can't see any mention of a nurse anywhere so that looks like another one of your tales. Nothing new there then. As for the old boy with time on his hands he can do what he likes with it. All I am saying is spend it wisely. Nothing wrong with helping people mate. Even old cry babies.

    Report this comment

    Del Boy

    Wednesday, March 12, 2014

  • I am pleased that no health issues were raised as being of any significant importance. At least the people in the area can sleep easily in the secure knowledge that all of the fuss made over health was no more than a storm in a tea cup brought about by rabble rousing campaigners.

    Report this comment

    Dr Barrington-Smythe

    Friday, March 14, 2014

  • The chances of SOS taking any notice of any confused, badly written, impotent letter from Nobbs...zero! The chances of SOS taking any notice of a well written, concise, to-the-point letter from Dobson et al....very likely! Let battle commence....we all know who is going to win and who is going to lose!

    Report this comment

    Scooby

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • Nobbs...not fit for purpose. The vote in April should be interesting, now that Labour are no longer the largest party in the rainbow alliance. And of course, the whipping fiasco that caused Kemp to leave the party will now only bite Nobbs; if he uses the whip, he will be completely castigated for doing so, and if he doesn't use it, he will lose the vote.

    Report this comment

    Scooby

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • Del Boy and your shadow, the comment “where on earth is all this other guff about the BBC etc” after your posts have been removed is the sort of thing one expects to hear in a school playground, and as for reporting to the moderators, wrong again. It’s no skin off my nose for everyone to see your lies, the more ‘names’ that post on here the easier it is for people to see the men.tality of those supporting the incinerator.

    Report this comment

    Honest John

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • I see he is still on the loose and not rounded up yet. You dont have much time left matey so spend it on something worthwhile.

    Report this comment

    Del Boy

    Wednesday, March 12, 2014

  • Oh, now you come to mention it 'D', I DO remember the day that coachloads of pro-campaigners were denied access to the PDC, despite the fact that Dan Grimmer and Chris Bishop completely missed it... Mainly because it was the same day that the Beatles decided play at the Riverside Rooms and Bernard Manning then came back from the dead to do a turn at Downham Con Club. I realise that this probably isn't miraculous enough for you, but then, I would imagine that fantasy plays a great part in some people's lives, hence the court appearance?!

    Report this comment

    User Removed

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • Mr Nobbs also called the Inspector "him";did he ever attend the Public Enquiry? She definitely was a lady. I cannot see the point in more Councillors seeking an audience with Mr Pickles.Would it be classed as a jolly?

    Report this comment

    bedoomed

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • Nice try Del Boy, your priceless post is a worthy contender for the 'nothing could be further from the truth' award.

    Report this comment

    Honest John

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • I'm pretty sure the person who repeatedly posts and reaffirms themselves is probably now beginning to believe thier own bile. Whether you want to accept it or not there really is not many that support the efw in KL, well except those with a vested interest or NIMBY'ISM from the East of the county.

    Report this comment

    d, west lynn

    Friday, March 14, 2014

  • It is true the anti campaigners constantly complain to moderators all day and night and mostly for nothing except they cannot bear anyone who challenges their view about the incinerator. All it seems to do is increase the dislike of the campaign and all it stands for which is to silence people.

    Report this comment

    Richard The Third

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • Del old mate why didnt the EDP, BBC, ITV report the alleged abuse of supporters of the scheme or the NCC security staff deal with it or the inspectorate staff demand police intevention on behalf of the alleged hundreds of supporters denied a voice by a handful of old age pensioners??? For heavens sake stop the li.es which can be so easily disproven you silly silly billy!

    Report this comment

    Canary Boy

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • A Spratt to catch a mackerel. I enjoy Derricks sense of humour if nothing else.

    Report this comment

    Dickens

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • It does seem rather uncharitable that the anti campaigners are abusing the moderators trust by working as a team to remove any comments they do not agree with. It looks as though the EDP are being conned by the anti campaign as has already been suggested many times.

    Report this comment

    Right Reverend Fuller

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • We need to remember that the incinerator was just one of many poor decisions (I`m being generous here) made by this and previous county councils in Norfolk. It is now important to ensure that future councils are aware that they are being carefully watched and then taken to task if needs be. Councillors are elected to represent the electorate. They have traditionally ridden roughshod over us in the past. Such arrogance and dare I say it lie.s are no longer acceptable. A brave new world lies ahead.

    Report this comment

    democrat

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • Do you notice that those who are worried about the officers lies are starting to panic, could there be a pay day for them? I agree with John Dobson and Co, there is no need to rush anything. For every week longer it takes there is less justification for it to be built, as we speak all the justification has run out.

    Report this comment

    Sweet cheeks

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

  • I notice the MBT plant in Cambridge is back in operation after being broken for 15 months. I bet they wish they had built an incinerator.....tried and tested technology.

    Report this comment

    Rhombus

    Thursday, March 13, 2014

  • H Ha Ha, soooo funny. Don't know how you think them up but it makes me laugh so thanks for that.

    Report this comment

    Sandy.L

    Friday, March 14, 2014

  • Having just read the excellent letter I congratulate the Sensational Six who continue to outshine the Sha.meful Seventy Eight.

    Report this comment

    Honest John

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014

The views expressed in the above comments do not necessarily reflect the views of this site

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