Paul Morse, Lib Dem leader

Extraordinary scenes as Lib Dems walk out of Norfolk council meeting

Monday, September 26, 2011
4:55 PM

A Norfolk County Council meeting erupted in extraordinary scenes today as a motion calling for a public inquiry into the way the cabinet had handled the King’s Lynn incinerator contract was stopped in its tracks.

A packed County Hall public gallery - swelled by a coachload of incinerator protestors - began slow hand-clapping and the Liberal Democrat group was joined by green councillor Andrew Boswell in dramatically walking out.

Lim Dem leader Paul Morse had proposed the motion stating: “This council is concerned that the behaviour of the council leader and the cabinet members within the decision-making process for the award of the contract to build an incinerator at Saddlebow is bringing Norfolk County Council into disrepute, and has not met the standards of open and transparent decision making expected by the people of Norfolk.”

It went on to call for the chief executive to initiate a full public inquiry “into the behaviour of the council leader and the cabinet in this entire process”.

However, a closure motion proposed by Roger Smith and seconded by Charlotte Casimir, two Tory councillors, succeeded in stopping any debate despite lengthy wrangling and shouts of “disgraceful” and “undemocratic” from opposition members.

The motion followed advice from chief executive David White that issues surrounding the incinerator should not be debated at the present time for fear of prejudicing the authority’s defence in a possible judicial review into the scheme.

He said while all parties had the right to bring motions, timing was the big issue - debating it now, rather than after December 5 when the bid for a jusicial review will be heard in the High Court, ran the risk of prejudicing the council’s defence and incurring more expense to Norfolk’s council tax payers.

Acting on legal advice concerning the potential risks, cabinet members had left the chamber ahead of the motion.

Bringing the closure motion, Mr Smith said it was clear from the chief executive’s advice that debating the incinerator issues would run the risk of the council suffering “legal, reputational and financial damage”.

Ms Casimir argued: “To discuss the motion against legal advice would be reckless and irresponsible.”

Mr Morse countered that stopping the debate was “a flagrant abuse of power and a sad day for democracy”. He said a truthful discussion would in no way prejudice the council’s position.

Following the meeting, he handed the EDP his prepared speech in which he described the March 7 cabinet meeting when the contact was awarded to Cory Wheelabrator as a “badly performed drama”, and questioned whether decisions made at the Conservative group meeting three days earlier consituted predetermination.

The speech accuses the council leader of “abandoning both due constitutional process and respect for other councillors and the public”.

A speech which would have been delivered by fellow Lib Dem Tim East highlights “grave concern that the leader and his cabinet made their decision well before arriving at cabinet on March 7, in so doing they pre-determined the issue and this very action has dragged the council down to arguably its lowest point”.

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24 comments

Everyone should read Quintin Hogg's 1976 paper on Elective Dictatorship. Then they will know what is going on.

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alecto

Thursday, September 29, 2011
Why is this article in the Burning Issue section? This is not about the incinerator, it is about democracy and should be in the politics section. The triggering factor may have been the incinerator but then it could so easily have been the dualling of the A11, The Road to Nowhere in North East Norwich etc etc. It would seem the dafties that pass as Councillors haven't been able to make this distinction either. Or is it that they are just allergic to open democratic debate?

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alecto

Thursday, September 29, 2011
Perhaps you're right John Martin - perhaps the tactics, as you say, were too much. However, I remember reading about a previous motion the LibDems put in that was, I believe, exactly the same as this one. They withdrew the motion for legal reasons (or because they lack the necessary steel to be in politics). So what exactly did they think was going to happen if they submitted the same motion at a subsequent meeting? Had the legal reasons changed in the time between meetings? The only reason they put it in was, as Basil Fawlty says, "to cause trouble". I grow tired of gesture politicians who waste peoples' time. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the walk-out was planned because surely they must have known what would happen with the motion - if they didn't one wonders at their naivety. I've said before that the public, not the elected officials, are doing a far better job at campaigning against the incinerator - the LibDems should let them get on with it.

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Peter J

Thursday, September 29, 2011
Alecto, I do realise that many ordinary lifelong conservatives in the community are disgusted with The Leader and his cabinet, I am (was) one of them. My problem is with all the conservative councillors who appear to blindly do as they are told and meakly follow their Leaders wishes. If you are right why are we not hearing any of the conservative councillors within county hall other than John Dobson and Brian Long stand up and challenge the disgracefull behaviour within county hall?

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Canary Boy

Thursday, September 29, 2011
What fundtion does Chris Walton, Head of Democratic Services, actually perform? Do they lock him in his office or what?

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Canary Boy

Wednesday, September 28, 2011
Did you know Cory Wheelabrator are door knocking in South Lynn asking loaded questions! Of course they are all loaded questions but look at this one 7) If supportive in answer to Question 5 - Would you be interested in submitting your views to the Council or in receiving more information updates from us? (If YES, collect contact details including email and telephone number). Not hand in hand with NCC then are they. For heavens sake low will they stoop!! Perhaps they could knock on me door, I would be very happy to give them some honest answers to their questions.

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Joy, King's Lynn

Wednesday, September 28, 2011
No Canary Boy. I don't think you realise how many very dedicated Conservatives are absolutely disgusted with the NCC and have thrown their lot in with the incinerator campaigners. The truth will out and these dreadful anti-democratic games being played by people who wrongly wear the blue rosette will be revealed in due course.

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alecto

Tuesday, September 27, 2011
I fear, Peter J, you are being unfairly harsh on the Lib Dems. Had you been at the meeting, you would have had an even better understanding of what went on. They suffered extreme provocation at the hands of the Chairman, the Chief Executive and the Tory members, after undoubtedly preparing extremely thoroughly for a debate. Had I been in their shoes, I really don't think that I could have sat there any longer once the Tory tactics triumphed. But, I suspect that we are far from having heard the last of this.

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John Martin

Tuesday, September 27, 2011
I'm sorry you had to watch this undemocratic behaviour John M. and I hope you petition succeeds, it does not seem to be known much by those 65.000 who objected to the waste burner. Roger Smith actions are despicable and such derailment of procedure and business is not saving face, trust or reputation, as for finacial liabilities, it was this totalitarian county regime that agreed to a 20 million get out clause. Cllr's Casimir and Smith should have been removed from the council chamber and put in the stocks for the duration of.

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ingo wagenknecht

Tuesday, September 27, 2011
Lat nail in the coffin of the conservative party in Morfolk. Ironic that the only conservatives coming though this with any credibility are those representing Kings Lynn and West Norfolk. They have looked at the bigger picture and realise the implications of being yes men to Norfolks leader

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Canary Boy

Tuesday, September 27, 2011
Just when we think they cannot sink to new depths the conservatives manage it! And we have to wait until 2013 until we get a chance to chuck them out, I simply cannot believe the Chief Executive was there stage managing this farce. What price democracy now? Actually there is a very important democratic issue here. If the Chief Executive can effectively run meetings by having the Chairman parroting what he tells her to say then surely we don't need the Councillors at all.

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alecto

Tuesday, September 27, 2011
At the end of the day the TRUTH that the cabinet are so afraid of revealing will get out. This will be taken outside of county hall it must be. Incompetent officers and ignorant councillors will be held responsible and the longer they delay the process to ensure that the more evidence they give us of the dreadful state of our local government. Today I write to Cameron, Clegg, Milliband. Mr Cameron will be told that the conservative members in county hall have chosen to press the self destruct button by literally stomping any pretence of democracy in the ground. Mr Clegg will be told how his duly elected councillors were not allowed to put a perfectly reasonably worded and honest motion before the council and Mr Milliband will be told that there was never in the history of Norfolk such a good time for him to gain ground, all he has to do is start asking questions at the top concerning this appalling farce.

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Joy, King's Lynn

Tuesday, September 27, 2011
There's a lot wrong with this. I'm no legal expert, but the use of procedural "derailment mechanics", as John Martin says, don't do much for those who question the democratic traditions of this country. That said, it might be slightly more useful if those people who are supposed to protect democracy don't throw their toys out of their pram and simply leave the meeting. Norfolk LibDems need to take some heed of their national colleagues and actually engage in the process rather than snipe from the sidelines and then act like a bunch of children.

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Peter J

Tuesday, September 27, 2011
The fact is that the Lib Dems were stitched up completely - and they did not deserve it - by a Chairman who is hopelessly equipped to chair full Council meetings, despite being given a special responsibility allowance of £10k to do it, and a Chief executive who was prepared to ride roughshod over the NCC Constitution. What hope is there for any of us. And it is a long time until June 2013.

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Nemesis

Monday, September 26, 2011
After the last general election I never, ever thought I would say this again, but - well done, Lib Dems.

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pamela mason

Monday, September 26, 2011
why is anyone surprised that our elected "representatives" pay no heed to public opinion...just look at the disgrace that allowed Tesco to build in Sheringham

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billyboggins

Monday, September 26, 2011
Did they have tickets for the football?

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Philip

Monday, September 26, 2011
So this is what it has come to ,we have no democracy in norfolk.

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Steve33

Monday, September 26, 2011
Yet another farce at County Hall and it isn't even Panto season yet! The chairperson was not in control of the meeting and was being told what to say by the Chief Executive David White, who is not even an elected councillor. He was actually seen motioning to Mr. Smith to put forward the closure motion. Mr. Smith interrupted and was allowed to speak despite not having indicated that he would like to. Those who tried to stick to the Council Procedure Rules were treated with the utmost contempt. If this is democracy then god help us all....

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Christine

Monday, September 26, 2011
No comments - that's strange, or is it to be expected?

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alecto

Monday, September 26, 2011
What was the point of paying for an indemnity? Remind us of the cost EDP and inform us why it was needed,Stifling debate and delaying another 2 months till December are two more examples of incompetence. If only Cabinet members and officers were indemnified against wrongdoing the buck stops with them not the remaining councillors , surely?

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bedoomed

Monday, September 26, 2011
Why can`t councils get things right first time round, without having to spend money on very expensive court battles. The more one learns about Dale Farm in Essex it is fairly obvious that Basildon Council`s case is unravelling by the day and heaven knows what the final cost for that will be, because the i`s haven`t been dotted the the t`s crossed. Do councillors lack the necessary skills to do the job or are they being badly advised by their legal officers? Somewhere, something is going badly wrong and we the tax payer are picking up the bill for it.

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BG

Monday, September 26, 2011
Strange that NCC, Broadland District Council and the Greater Norwich Development Partnership all quote the sub judice argument for not having an open and transparent debate on the Incinerator , the NDR and the JCS. If they were that concerened then why do they continue with these schemes when it is entirely possible that they will all be thrown out by the court. What then?

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BDC INSIDER

Monday, September 26, 2011
I was present at the meeting this morning. While I had always envisaged that Cllr Morse’s motion would be halted in this way, I did not imagine for one moment that the actual derailment mechanics would involve a coach and horses being driven through the NCC Constitution, with the assistance of the Chief Executive and the Chairman. The procedural advice given by the former was plainly incorrect, and to make matters worse even one of the Tory members pointed that out to him, only to be ignored. In terms of local democracy, this has to be the low water mark. Something must be done about this adminstration well before the 2013 elections.

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John Martin

Monday, September 26, 2011