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 08/10/2009, 8:50 PM
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Storm
 
Joined on 27/07/2009
Posts 379
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Re: North East Norfolk Under Attack
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Several spooks have been thrown into the NDR and the North Eastern-housing plan of late.
Obviously you are aware of the latest on the NDR with the government sending them back and asking them to do more work on it and also look for alternatives and with funding going to be tight. If the road doesn't go ahead the houses don't get built.
Secondly in a few months we are likely to get a change of government. And it could well be Tory (God Forbid) but Cameron was ask what he thought about these housing plans and his answer was that it should be up to the people who live there who’s lives that it will affect.
There is a long way to go but I get a sense that the councils getting a bit desperate and things may be going against their plan to blight N/E Norfolk.
One things that doesn’t really help is the Smith women, hopefully she will lose her seat in the next election.
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09/10/2009, 8:51 AM
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thelibrarian
Joined on 27/08/2009
Posts 392
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Re: North East Norfolk Under Attack
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Viking asks how good was the consultation All I can say is if Norfolk county council can distribute its paper wasting magazine trumpeting what it has been spending our money on to every household in the county , then it could have delivered consultation questionaires in the same way The NDR will affect and be of concern to far more people than just those who live along the route and as Norfolk County Council Tax payers we should all have a say in whether we think it desirable or not.
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13/10/2009, 7:53 AM
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Storm
Joined on 27/07/2009
Posts 379
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Re: North East Norfolk Under Attack
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13/10/2009, 9:47 AM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 3,173
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Re: North East Norfolk Under Attack
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 Storm wrote: | |
Now the way has been paved for the sharks to come in and present their PFI road, mark my words, there are prefered contractors already working on a toll road idea, with extra roads and such, a true spaghetti dinner.
The costs would be transfered to the council tax, as the Tories had always planned and the delay is only peripheral, thats my guess.
The need for an alternative, a non road based plan B should have been worked out in the first place, as a back up, but the likes of councillor Gunson, bold and experienced in bullying for more unsustainable roads, he always had the plan to lumber us all with the costs.
Its too early to party Norton, the preps are done, ready for anybody to come in, would not be the first time.
Another point, they might not have to pay all of the preparotory work, because we are 'desperate' for the NDR when one looks at the consultation document, the alternative tram train barely gets a mention whilst the NDR has its own 2 pages and more, so lest wait before we purchase our tram shares ( my idea). nevermind
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13/10/2009, 9:52 AM
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thelibrarian
Joined on 27/08/2009
Posts 392
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Re: North East Norfolk Under Attack
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What I can't understand is this obsession with centring all the bulk of the government's imposition of housing on Norwich and North Norfolk. There should not be any need to overheat Norwich in the same way as Cambridge. There are market towns to the south of Norwich as well as the North that can stand developing rather than just building more centreless suburbs around Norwich. Expanding the smaller towns such as Diss and Swaffham as well as building in places like Lynn and Yarmouth and encouraging businesses to set up there would spread the burden, possibly make the use of brownfield or marginal sites more viable and might also help smaller communities in the vicinity.There are also larger villages , such as Martham in NE Norfolk which have space to expand a bit and are not too far from urban centres and have the potential to develop into small townships without a huge impact if done carefully.
Of course the councillors backing the NDR know that developers don't want this sensible careful community based sort of option, they just want to be able to dump identikit estates close to an access road ( and for the look of it, possibly with a rail link or bus route so we can be fooled it will be possible to use public transport) so they can maximise their profits.
This is what we have been getting all round Norwich and our larger towns already. Just because they let the rot set in with Thetford and Fairstead does not mean that our councillors should not be standing up to a government which has allowed developers to ride roughshod over communities.
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13/10/2009, 11:11 AM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 3,173
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Re: North East Norfolk Under Attack
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very good point librarian, Beccles, Bungay, Diss and many more towns could easily be expanded sensibly, there is not need for more doughnut developments. Councilors backing the NDR have carried on wortking for it and spend our money, when they already knew the Government would not support their scheming, they always had a plan B for getting it built and they will soon present us with a PFI, thats my guess. There was never an alternative considered to the bypass, this was their plan all the way. nevermind
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14/10/2009, 9:21 AM
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viking
Joined on 28/07/2009
Norwich
Posts 11
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Re: North East Norfolk Under Attack
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In the EDP last week Adrian Gunson said 'The NDR opens the door to a whole range of sustainable transport options'
It does exactly the opposite as any reasonable assessment would demonstrate. There will be thousands of extra journeys leading to a demand for further road improvements on local roads, most of which are for simple country access.
How will they pay for all this? Well there is a new tax coming up called the
'Community Infrastructure Levy' Never heard of it? Like so much of this project you will find that you have been 'consulted' because it is in the Joint Core Strategy.
If your councillors are not looking after your interests who will?
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14/10/2009, 9:37 AM
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thelibrarian
Joined on 27/08/2009
Posts 392
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Re: North East Norfolk Under Attack
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A good indication of the future would be what operates in the present. Without researching on travel line I have no idea if public transport in Norwich makes use of the current ring road systems eg if one can get from Thorpe St Andrews to Sweet briar or any point along the ring road without going into the city and out again. If a system like that does not operate now on on earths name will a ring road even further out do the business? If companies like First Bus don't run routes between obvious places like Yarmouth and Wroxham or Yarmouth and villages just 3 miles out why are they going to start routes between Wroxham and Fakenham or Thorpe and Spixworth without going to Norwich- because that is the only sort of public transport route that would be enhanced by an NDR. Having a new ring road will not take the pressure off Norwich city centre unless the public transport is run by a local authority on desired routes rather than most profitable routes.
I have been watching the guided bus way being built from Huntingdon to Cambridge on the route of a former rail line. It looks very expensive and is taking a long long time- but it will be interesting to see if this is a way forward, using old rail beds as a route into cities but using them for cheaper and more flexible buses which can then use the city roads at the end of the line. This gets round the fact that the old tracks are usually built on in the city centres.
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14/10/2009, 9:48 AM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 3,173
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Re: North East Norfolk Under Attack
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| viking wrote: | | In the EDP last week Adrian Gunson said 'The NDR opens the door to a whole range of sustainable transport options' It does exactly the opposite as any reasonable assessment would demonstrate. There will be thousands of extra journeys leading to a demand for further road improvements on local roads, most of which are for simple country access. How will they pay for all this? Well there is a new tax coming up called the 'Community Infrastructure Levy' Never heard of it? Like so much of this project you will find that you have been 'consulted' because it is in the Joint Core Strategy. If your councillors are not looking after your interests who will? |
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Thanks for that Viking, will this tax be payed for by the car owning populace or by all of us? again. Will those who have to rely on expensive for breaking down trains and unhappy bus drivers, expensive and unreliable bus contractors and lack of adequate facillities, those who are trying their best to be green, will they have to fork out for this tax as well?
Adrian Gunson's latest wheeze is undeniably a sop to pay for roads, nothing to do with any other infrastructure. The tram train in the consultation document, something we should all support btw., has never been planned or worked out or mentioned by any of them, apart from those campaigning for it, so their inclusion of this idea was arbitrary and at the last minute. nevermind
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15/10/2009, 10:32 PM
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viking
Joined on 28/07/2009
Norwich
Posts 11
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Re: North East Norfolk Under Attack
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More spin from Adrian Gunson in the EDP letters section today.
His justification for the mess he is getting us into seems to be that since we have already spent £10million unwisely we should just compound the error by spending another £127million.
Even as he wrote his argument was being destroyed by a Mr Peter Lanyon. Is it a By-Pass for North Norfolk ( in which case how do you justify missing the western arm. That alone will create more rat running than any other reductions.) or is the construction of thousands more houses around Norwich a more likely justification.
In either case it is a flawed strategy and inconsistent with any ecological benefits. The latest argument for Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) is another con. The Councils do not run buses anymore. Private companies do and they will operate only where there is profit - otherwise you subsidise them.
What happened to the rail stations we were going to have at Rackheath when that development was proposed, or later at Dussindale and the Business Park when they were both being justified. The Rail company refused.
Frankly, the Transport Department in the County Council is a shambles. They have developed the culture of out of town car based shopping and now want us all to go back to waiting for buses in the rain. Can't see it myself.
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15/10/2009, 11:01 PM
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chrisb
Joined on 14/08/2003
Posts 981
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Re: North East Norfolk Under Attack
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| thelibrarian wrote: |
I have been watching the guided bus way being built from Huntingdon to Cambridge on the route of a former rail line. It looks very expensive and is taking a long long time- but it will be interesting to see if this is a way forward, using old rail beds as a route into cities but using them for cheaper and more flexible buses which can then use the city roads at the end of the line. This gets round the fact that the old tracks are usually built on in the city centres.
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It certainly is expensive not only in cash terms but environmentally with the large anounts of concrete that I understand are involved in the construction. Most of the cities that have acquired modern tramways (e.g. Manchester) have utilised old rail lines up to the city centre before taking to the roads in the centre. This seems to work fine. The tramways also use several "carriages" coupled together so can carry more people per service/driver than a bus could - unless it's a bendy one of course but they don't seem to have been much of a hit.
Cambridge's guided bus way of course also screwed the efforts of those who wanted to reinstate the mothballed line as part of a greater rail re-generation and it has been suggested that the real purpose of the bus way experiment was to scupper any such plans.
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17/10/2009, 9:05 AM
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Richard Williams
Joined on 19/04/2008
Posts 29
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Re: North East Norfolk Under Attack
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The Joint Core Strategy has now been issued and after telling us that it would only be available to the public for two weeks 'to test its soundness' it seems there is a change of heart.
It is to be available for a period of six weeks now but what will that mean for residents. The full document allows Broadland District Council to release large swathes of farming land to developers, most of which is outside present development boundaries.
When this was debated by Broadland District Council this week, the ruling Conservative administration curtailed the debate and refused to accept that it should be reconsidered by the cabinet.
The Chairman of Broadland is an appointee on the EERA and the GNDP but it seems he does not want to listen to representations made on behalf of his residents.
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17/10/2009, 8:10 PM
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Storm
Joined on 27/07/2009
Posts 379
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Re: North East Norfolk Under Attack
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18/10/2009, 11:16 AM
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Richard Williams
Joined on 19/04/2008
Posts 29
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Re: North East Norfolk Under Attack
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EDP yesterday announces a series of exhibitions showing the County Councils important proposals for keeping Norwich moving.
It wasn't put together in too much of a rush but the first day of the exhibition was....yesterday!
There is only one exhibition in North East Norfolk and that is in Wroxham....tomorrow.
They will than claim again that the residents have been consulted. It is just another demonstration of poor community engagement.
Storm is right, panic is setting in.
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18/10/2009, 12:53 PM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 3,173
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Re: North East Norfolk Under Attack
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| chrisb wrote: | | thelibrarian wrote: |
I have been watching the guided bus way being built from Huntingdon to Cambridge on the route of a former rail line. It looks very expensive and is taking a long long time- but it will be interesting to see if this is a way forward, using old rail beds as a route into cities but using them for cheaper and more flexible buses which can then use the city roads at the end of the line. This gets round the fact that the old tracks are usually built on in the city centres.
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It certainly is expensive not only in cash terms but environmentally with the large anounts of concrete that I understand are involved in the construction. Most of the cities that have acquired modern tramways (e.g. Manchester) have utilised old rail lines up to the city centre before taking to the roads in the centre. This seems to work fine. The tramways also use several "carriages" coupled together so can carry more people per service/driver than a bus could - unless it's a bendy one of course but they don't seem to have been much of a hit.
Cambridge's guided bus way of course also screwed the efforts of those who wanted to reinstate the mothballed line as part of a greater rail re-generation and it has been suggested that the real purpose of the bus way experiment was to scupper any such plans.
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As someone who campaigned for an East west rail connection and also for this Cambridge commuter line to be brought back into use for a fraction of the price this concrete bus route costs, I am also waiting to see what a few days of snow would do to such a monstrosity.
Experiences from Germany have shown that guided buses got stuck in snow with no road to divert to they had to drive backwards for miles ruining their buses doing so. Some clever cloggs will probably come back now and talk about global warming and less snow here in blighty, but snow can fall here as well.
This development was done carried out by builders implicated in the national fraud inquiery and you can guess by how much the taxpayer was defrauded. It cost 190 million afaik, the bring back the rail route into use would have costed 1/6th of that.
This decision was punched through by the same mindset that is forcing us to pay up for an incomplete NDR. To stop at Taverham will schmooze Tory voters, create lots of traffic there and will make them so miserable that they eventually will give in to Gunsons plans.
Trams are independent, they run on time because they demand priority on junctions, they are on time, every time.
Adrian Gunson has caused us many debts and delays. Road reapirs are limping behind to the tune of 60 million, Bridge strengthening and enlarging to make space for railbased transport of goods and vehicles is behind as well.
The park and ride services looks like they are going to be privatised, hopefully that will not include the land the facillities use, the park and ride sites must be kept in County ownership for future use.
To fund the P%R sites from taxpayers money is blatant discrimination of those who try their best to use public transport around the city, it serves those who already own a mode of transport and not others, thats discriminating and worth a case against the county. These buses should be made to stop and pick up other bus susers along the way, it is untennable that they pass by bus stops with fare paying customers waiting, when the bus is near empty. nevermind
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EDP24 Forums » EDP24 General » News » North East Norfolk Under Attack
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