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31/03/2006, 4:12 PM PLASTICMASTER Joined on 31/03/2006 Posts 285 PLastic recycling in Norwich It is quite clear in Norwich, not enough has been done by the City Council to recycle all plastics. Other local authorities have plastic recycling well under way. Norwich recycles only 15% of its waste compared to almost twice that amount in neighbouring Broadland and Breckland.Plastic waste and plastic retail packaging makes up huge amount of this, 20-30%.  18%  for 2006 is clearly unambitous. At the moment in Norwich there are only plastic bottle banks. This is clearly not enough, and not enough action in 3 areas 1) Forcing supermarkets to produce less grades of plastic packaging, less plastic packaging, that shoppers take out of the store, to allow more viable recycling. 2) A domestic collection and plastics recycling schemes,  whether communal flat or individual houses. 3) Recycling plastic centres or plants specialised in sorting and grading plastics, or plastics recycling firms to. Plastic recycling and sorting work would be idea community service work for Asbo breacher, prison inmates and offenders/ probationers requiring to undertake Community Service. Total plastic recycling is possible. It is viable. Norwich CC are clearly sitting on their Green creditials and and are un ambitious and virtuallly inert withis Plastic recycling roll outs at the domestic collection level. This needs to change. Any thoughts?    Report

31/03/2006, 7:55 PM Lynda Joined on 22/03/2004 Norwich Posts 2,721 Re: PLastic recycling in Norwich Well said, Plasticmaster!  I do try to think of packaging when buying anything.    Recently, I bought two energy saving light bulbs in the city.   The particular mini size which I required to fit into two lampshades I had, were available in the shop I went into.    However, I had to sort through the bulbs on display as there were many in that infuriating bubble package which is useless when opened!    I managed to buy two, fom the same display, in cardboard packets.    Anyone buying these bulbs would surely be conscientious about the environment and would want them in recyclable packaging! If I buy convenience food it is in tins rather than packets due to the recycling aspect. Several years ago I had to finish having my milk delivered due to the cutbacks in the service.   I now have to buy my milk in those infuriating plastic bottles which cannot be recycled without having to cart the things to Sainsbury's of Queens Road (I live just off the Dereham Road).   I know there is a campaign to have more plastic recycling banks in the city ,hpefully in Exeter Street Car Park which is near where I live, to encourage people to recycle plastic. I also find it annoying when buying fish and chips to find the chips are now put in a polystyrene tray instead of the paper bag which they used to be put in! Lynda  Technology is great when it works.    Report

03/04/2006, 12:06 AM jerry Joined on 14/08/2003 Posts 907 Re: PLastic recycling in Norwich  Lynda wrote: Well said, Plasticmaster!    I now have to buy my milk in those infuriating plastic bottles which cannot be recycled without having to cart the things to Sainsbury's of Queens Road (I live just off the Dereham Road). No you don't.  They still sell milk in waxed cardboard containers as far as I know. jerry jerry road safety expert    Report

03/04/2006, 1:22 AM Lynda Joined on 22/03/2004 Norwich Posts 2,721 Re: PLastic recycling in Norwich  jerry wrote:  Lynda wrote: Well said, Plasticmaster!    I now have to buy my milk in those infuriating plastic bottles which cannot be recycled without having to cart the things to Sainsbury's of Queens Road (I live just off the Dereham Road). No you don't.  They still sell milk in waxed cardboard containers as far as I know. jerry Most shops round here have given up selling milk in cardboard containers due to the fact they kept leaking!      We only have milk in plastic bottles now - except for organic milk which is expensive if someone has to buy a large quantity for a family or a group activity. Lynda  Technology is great when it works.    Report

03/04/2006, 1:22 AM Lynda Joined on 22/03/2004 Norwich Posts 2,721 Re: PLastic recycling in Norwich  jerry wrote:  Lynda wrote: Well said, Plasticmaster!    I now have to buy my milk in those infuriating plastic bottles which cannot be recycled without having to cart the things to Sainsbury's of Queens Road (I live just off the Dereham Road). No you don't.  They still sell milk in waxed cardboard containers as far as I know. jerry Most shops round here have given up selling milk in cardboard containers due to the fact they kept leaking!      We only have milk in plastic bottles now - except for organic milk which is expensive if someone has to buy a large quantity for a family or a group activity. Lynda  Technology is great when it works.    Report

03/04/2006, 1:49 PM jerry Joined on 14/08/2003 Posts 907 Re: PLastic recycling in Norwich  Lynda wrote:  jerry wrote:  Lynda wrote: Well said, Plasticmaster!    I now have to buy my milk in those infuriating plastic bottles which cannot be recycled without having to cart the things to Sainsbury's of Queens Road (I live just off the Dereham Road). No you don't.  They still sell milk in waxed cardboard containers as far as I know. jerry Most shops round here have given up selling milk in cardboard containers due to the fact they kept leaking!      We only have milk in plastic bottles now - except for organic milk which is expensive if someone has to buy a large quantity for a family or a group activity. Perhaps other posters on here know where to get milk in good quality cardboard containers in Norwich so Linda won't be infuriated with plastic ones anymore. It might be a little more expensive Lynda, and there may be the very occaisional leak, but surely that is a small price when you are busy saving the planet. jerry jerry road safety expert    Report

12/04/2006, 10:04 PM PLASTICMASTER Joined on 31/03/2006 Posts 285 Re: PLastic recycling in Norwich Jerry I appreciate you points Jerry. My point was generally aimed for the majority of households who say buy their milk in 0.5/1/2/4 litre standard  MDPE containers and want to recycle but conveniently can not. At £80-120 per tonne MDPE has a market. I just wonder why Norwich CC haven't done more to encourage Zero Waste. Obviously most folk are not going to go to the Green Grocers overnight to by milk in cardboard containers, like converter believers like yourself and myself.     jerry wrote:  Lynda wrote:  jerry wrote:  Lynda wrote: Well said, Plasticmaster!    I now have to buy my milk in those infuriating plastic bottles which cannot be recycled without having to cart the things to Sainsbury's of Queens Road (I live just off the Dereham Road). No you don't.  They still sell milk in waxed cardboard containers as far as I know. jerry Most shops round here have given up selling milk in cardboard containers due to the fact they kept leaking!      We only have milk in plastic bottles now - except for organic milk which is expensive if someone has to buy a large quantity for a family or a group activity. Perhaps other posters on here know where to get milk in good quality cardboard containers in Norwich so Linda won't be infuriated with plastic ones anymore. It might be a little more expensive Lynda, and there may be the very occaisional leak, but surely that is a small price when you are busy saving the planet. jerry    Report

21/04/2006, 11:14 AM April Joined on 21/04/2006 Posts 1 Re: PLastic recycling in Norwich Well said Plasticmaster. Trouble is, that they're not going to put money into this unless they have at least some sort of end user to sell to. There are so many ways of using recycled plastics, but the really innovative ways that would make day to day life a whole lot 'greener', are usually proposed by new buisnesses, who would be trying to sell to an unknown market, so any financial outlay is a greater risk. Add to this, the fact that places like Norwich aren't willing to seperate out much more than drinks bottles, and their source of raw materials becomes either non existant, erratic, or adds transportation costs (transport is defeating the object anyway). The end result is that setting up new green innovative companies becomes too risky, involves too many loops to jump through, and the ones that do survive all that through sheer determination, have to regain their costs through high prices. Unfortunate, but understandable, and this does nothing but keep recycled innovation in the realms of a minority market, and doesnt demonstrate how big that market could actually be..(e.g Dyson's looked like something off planet Mars at first, he took a huge risk in an unknown market that cost millions to research, and now, how many copies are now also available? Thats OK, if you have money....)  There was recently weeks of research done at Costessesy, seperating out more recycleable elements from household rubbish. Firstly, I dread to think how much that cost, and secondly, why? We know what there is, and it would have been much better to use that funding to subsodise start up costs for new businesses wanting to actually use recycled plastics, rubber, glass, anything. As far as I can tell from talking to someone that was involved in the project, it didnt even calculate what was available, just how much we were missing. Ever tried recycling sheet glass, rather than bottles? Not possible in East Anglia really, because it has to be transported so far to be processed, and is worth so little. How many old windows, table tops, glass doors etc. do you see in skips on a daily basis? How much bottle bank glass goes to landfill anyway? Won't be long before the EU will be imposing horrific fines for over reaching landfill targets, guess who's council tax bills that will go on, and then add it all up, to see just how much could go into development in a realistic way at ground level, and not at endless conferences where decisions are made generally based on the reality of planet Cukoo! Added then to your list, I say;  Help fund new business start ups intending to use recycled materials  Subsodise technical tests for fire standards etc for these products, so they can be used commercially too Do market research for these companies, to prove that we would all happily turn to 'green' if it wasnt going to break the bank. Most of all, Encourage, encourage, encourage...........at street level, and not just at 'Yak Yak' level! It would be interesting actually, if concerned general public could have a real voice in all this, and set the ball in motion to encourage all this happening, rather than just the token diplomatic gestures we generally get. Any more ideas anyone??      Report

21/04/2006, 3:22 PM jerry Joined on 14/08/2003 Posts 907 Re: PLastic recycling in Norwich We could all boycott supermarkets that don't sell milk in cardboard containers, and show them that we mean what we say about saving the planet. jerry jerry road safety expert    Report

30/04/2006, 12:41 AM freelance Joined on 29/04/2006 Posts 1 Re: PLastic recycling in Norwich Plastic milk containers were on the original list of recyclables in the Waveney district. As far as I know, they are still allowed in the recycling bin.  And all the Waveney stuff goes to Norwich anyway. (Costessey, I believe). We cannot expect too much of our councils in recycling.  In my opinion, the consideration is probably more for avoiding Government penalties than for "green" principles.  Having said this, in East Anglia  we have some of the best performing councils regarding this subject, in the country. Companies in China and India are crying out for this plastic material (HDPE) and advertise continually on the internet. With prices and transport advice.      Report

30/04/2006, 8:02 PM PLASTICMASTER Joined on 31/03/2006 Posts 285 Re: PLastic recycling in Norwich So with a market and recycling plastics companies like Axion, its really lack of political will and organisational roll outs of many WCA councils and waste/ recycling officers. This is the nub if things. I give you the example of the flats I live in Norwich. 3 months ago no recycle bins, all black bag route. Now 3 recycle bins ..glass,  cans and paper/ cardboard. All get filled by 16 flat residents who recycle and all that goes in black bags in plastics (which could be collected) and  food waste (which also could  be source separated).  So in only 3 months all residents have changed very quickly from zero cycling to substantial recycling, to that limited to what the council and city care can roll out. We are in a poor Labour area where one wouldn,t expect recycling culture or this to take root. But the opposite is true, because if you make it easy and convenient to recycle, with organised source sorted & fortnightly kerbside collections, once residents get into it, they do it automatically. So with plastic companies wanting plastic (PETs and MDPE, HDPE's at £80-120 per tonne (more than garden paving), and residents willing and wanting more recycling: the ball is in the councils area to roll out kerbside plastic recycling, whether in a twin dry bin, or adding to a Green Box. After this councils need to look at kerbside collections of source separated Organic (food and green waste) for central composting  or anaerobic digestion AD.                Report

04/05/2006, 6:00 PM PLASTICMASTER Joined on 31/03/2006 Posts 285 Re: PLastic recycling in Norwich Today , Norwich CC announced 14 more recycle banks in Norwich. But they were more glass banks. They should have been more Plastic container banks spread around the city. It was just pre election false green spin and BS. People can put glass, paper and tins in their green box or through their communal scheme. This is not the case for drinks, milk and shampoo plastic container bottle, Grades 1 and 2. People don't have the plastic choice yet. They have to congest the city centre by going to Sainsbury or Morrisons.A real pity.    Report

22/05/2006, 10:53 AM seavilla Joined on 22/05/2006 Posts 1 Re: PLastic recycling in Norwich Lynda - your milk packaging problem is easily solved - dont buy it in cartons or plastic - just get it delivered in the traditional way by the milkman!  then they will take the glass bottles back and reuse them endlessly - amazing really how easy it is NOT to keep buying plastic & cardboard etc.    Report

22/05/2006, 11:54 AM Lynda Joined on 22/03/2004 Norwich Posts 2,721 Re: PLastic recycling in Norwich  seavilla wrote: Lynda - your milk packaging problem is easily solved - dont buy it in cartons or plastic - just get it delivered in the traditional way by the milkman!  then they will take the glass bottles back and reuse them endlessly - amazing really how easy it is NOT to keep buying plastic & cardboard etc. Seavilla, thanks for the hint but I used to do this.     Trouble was I had a full-time job then and the milk delivery changed to only three times a week at 1 pm!   I used to arrive home, in the summer, to 2 or 3 bottles of milk (I only ordered one every other day but they wouldn't do it that way) which had to be poured down the sink as they had gone off in the sun.       I then had to dash up to the shop to buy milk - in a plastic bottle.      Hardly anyone has milk delivered here now - it is just not worth it. Lynda  Technology is great when it works.    Report

22/05/2006, 3:30 PM PLASTICMASTER Joined on 31/03/2006 Posts 285 Re: PLastic recycling in Norwich Linda, I have to agree with your comment. The home delivery route creates as many problems as it solves. Its fine is say you are a full time parent, pensioner or work at home, but not if one is working full/ commuting. It doesn't have the flexibility in a mobile world. Until Tetrapak containers have a better recycling network, HDPE plastic bottles are the best recycle option. These at least have a recycle route, via Sainsbury and Morrisons, and is likely to get future roll outs in The Green Box Scheme in Norwich (not yet..hurry up Cllr Steve Morphew and Brian Morey), or Twin Bin recycle scheme in most other Norfolk Councils. Tetrapaks have to be transported all the way up to Scotland (Arbroath I think)  for recycling, incurring a lot of road miles and CO2 transport emissions. If an Eastern Tetrapak recycle plant existed, I could see Tetrapaks as been a equally good container as HDPE plastic containers for Juice and Milk. Tetrapak main value is they are tailored to Longlife Milk and Juices, which might be the important consumer preference. I lived in the Canary Island for 3 years in Horticulture and used  used Tetrapaks as Propagation/Plant Containers. I would cut them in half, equal, cut holes in the bottom with scissors for drainage, fill up with seed compost and start tomatoes, cucumbers, marrow and other flowers, to germinate before potting on grown bags or planting out on terraces or under polytunnel/ glass. I would pack them together to hold them up and increase the efficiency of watering. Naturally they were light, free, collaspable, waterproof, a sillver reflective inner coating to keep plant rootlets warm, and I would normally use the 6 times before disposal. This way I cut down on PVC black containers and increased my propagation from by shopping packaging. I tried the same with PET and HDPE bottle containers, but these were not as good. After 2 months outside they would depolymerise, become brittle and disintergrate. Any more thoughts about useful uses of for plastic packaging.  I'm thinking of trying modelling/ sculpting plastic wrapping (like you might use paper mashy, but with different plastics/film) but still researching an eco friendly adhesive and  paint. Any ideas          Report

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