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 07/11/2009, 1:10 AM
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thelibrarian
Joined on 27/08/2009
Posts 392
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Ok, MKJ - missed that bit in the online edition. Quite frankly, even if he had a history of using his fists if the court cleared him of the offence in question then I don't see the problem.
Nor, despite the fact that a lot of servicemen are solid upright citizens, do I have any illusions about the army's recruitment policy. They take them, short tempers and all. If they fight and get found out then they cool off in military prison. And lets face it, with three former military big guns saying that the poor beggars in Afghanistan are being short changed by Brown, who in their right minds would want to be a serving soldier. Nor do they earn a great deal for getting shot at or blown up.
I think Wellington had something to say on the matter of the nature of soldiers. Perhaps it has not changed much
Nor has the inclination of men to fight when they are drunk.
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07/11/2009, 8:51 AM
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wallis
 
Joined on 10/07/2008
Posts 5,237
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![Tongue Tied [:S]](/CS/emoticons/emotion-7.gif)
Re: Prince Of Wales Road
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sack the judge
he has no business taking the accused's occupation into account
[Lector? what do you think?]
and sack the accused, he has no business using lethal force [a licensed professional boxer's fists are classified as potentially lethal weapons, are they not?] when his training in unarmed combat should have enabled him to defend himself against a tipsy civvy without resorting to extremes of violence [he argued, in terms, that his victim was 'bigger than him and that he couldn't have wrestled him'. wottaloadabollx]
hopefully the 'returning hero's' CO will put him on point duty for the rest of his active service, or order him to retrain as a bomb disposal operative
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07/11/2009, 9:13 AM
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thelibrarian
Joined on 27/08/2009
Posts 392
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Plenty of precedents for judges taking occupations into account when sentencing Wallis.
As for the shouldn't have used his fists because he's a soldier, I don't know but doesn't that stray into sentencing on outcome rather than intent which is dodgy ground if applied across the board. What if a 6 foot 18stone chap was hurrying along a station platform and knocked a child into the path of a train? The outcome could be very serious but the intent to harm might not have been there even if there was reckless stupidity. What do you sentence on then?
I wonder if the EDP report could have given a fuller account of the nature of the affray, and if it would have done if the defendent had been a pillar of the community eg a councillor who had perhaps done a bit of boxing in his youth.
Given the money spent training him , sending him out to Afghanstan makes more sense than locking him up.
As for blokes fighting-I thought chucking out time brawls were as old as pubs
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07/11/2009, 9:47 AM
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wallis
Joined on 10/07/2008
Posts 5,237
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![Indifferent [:|]](/CS/emoticons/emotion-8.gif)
Re: Prince Of Wales Road
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thelibrarian
I did not make myself clear
doubtless there are such precedents, but that doesn't make 'em right!
Gooda was explicitly exculpated because of his putative 'value' as a squaddie: that can't be right surely, and may serve only as a precedent in future affrays when drunken squaddies on home leave get into fights... the defence will automatically be "my client pleads Crwon vs Gooda 2009..."
if one of the mountainous bouncers [they are HUUUUUUGE] at the club where he and his mucker had previously been hoyed out had walloped him and he'd hit his head on a kerbstone and died, what then? would the bouncer be exonerated 'cos he was only doing HIS job, using reasonable force...?
I'd like to know what Lector thinks - he was a judge [and he knows the POW road well...stopping off there frequently, allegedly, to get his Beamer serviced]
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07/11/2009, 10:08 AM
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thelibrarian
Joined on 27/08/2009
Posts 392
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Probably Wallis- if a bouncer had thrown a punch and a death had resulted from not the punch but the head hitting a hard surface .
Are you sure you are not unduly put out because the chap is a soldier? What if it had been the other way around, and it had been man in the street punching a soldier who then died?
This is daft arguing about this- the offence he was convicted for was affray No doubt someone will be able to tell us just how often those convicted of affray get locked even if they have records- that's if the case gets to court. Look at this-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_8341000/8341162.stm
This is about cases of assault and injury not even getting before a magistrate or a jury because the police and CPS decide to do deals with cautions, fines and apologies and the victims having to go to a judicail review to get their assailants put in court.
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07/11/2009, 11:02 AM
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Richard
Joined on 08/01/2004
Posts 274
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Wallis where is your evidence to support this statement?
Gooda was explicitly exculpated because of his putative 'value' as a squaddie: that can't be right surely, and may serve only as a precedent in future affrays when drunken squaddies on home leave get into fights... the defence will automatically be "my client pleads Crwon vs Gooda 2009..."
if one of the mountainous bouncers [they are HUUUUUUGE] at the club where he and his mucker had previously been hoyed out had walloped him and he'd hit his head on a kerbstone and died, what then? would the bouncer be exonerated 'cos he was only doing HIS job, using reasonable force...?
If the bouncer had been prevoked the answer is Yes. If the bouncer just did it out of spite then the answer is No.
A case cannot be judged on IF's its facts that matter.
Live your Dream Ask me how?
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07/11/2009, 11:27 AM
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wallis
Joined on 10/07/2008
Posts 5,237
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Re: Prince Of Wales Road
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Richard/thelibrarian
no, we don't know the full facts of the case
so
yes, it is daft to argue about it
my point was, I think, that there seems to be some sort of 'wartime-frenzy' taking hold just now - as witnessed by the huge fuss made [by the EDP] over the tragic but unhappily unexceptional accidental death in a traffic accident near Wymondham of a serving soldier just before resuming his tour of duty in a theatre of war...
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07/11/2009, 11:45 AM
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mahatma kane jeeves
Joined on 14/03/2007
Posts 1,618
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The next time someone is battered to death or senseless in the POW Road and people on here start demanding tougher sentences and no nonsense judges who hand out the maximum sentence with no namby pamby liberal/political correctness guff , i will merely point to some of the comments on this thread. Nothing much to worry about , boys will be boys etc etc.
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07/11/2009, 11:49 AM
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wallis
Joined on 10/07/2008
Posts 5,237
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![Hmm [^o)]](/CS/emoticons/emotion-40.gif)
Re: Prince Of Wales Road
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Richard
my 'evidence' is only hearsay, to wit...
... the judge is reported to have said, in terms, that Gooda was 'of value' to the army because he 'speaks an Aghan dialect'
therefore, if we follow this judge's logic down the well-trodden path of reductio ad absurdum, the very same offence committed under identical conditions by a squaddie who did NOT speak an Afghan dialect may have resulted in the judge coming to a different view
is that not stark raving bonkers?
or wot
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07/11/2009, 11:51 AM
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wallis
Joined on 10/07/2008
Posts 5,237
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Re: Prince Of Wales Road
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MaCoat
yew startin'?
I'll see yew outside
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07/11/2009, 12:22 PM
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C C
Joined on 21/08/2003
Posts 1,526
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Reading some of the comments on this tread I was minded of Kiplings old poem.
"Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind."
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07/11/2009, 12:49 PM
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mahatma kane jeeves
Joined on 14/03/2007
Posts 1,618
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C C wrote the following post at 07/11/2009 12:22 PM:
"Reading some of the comments on this tread I was minded of Kiplings old poem"
Don`t you mean this one:
IF you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs.....( and not punch the living daylights out of a stranger )
You'll be a Man, my son!
And his lesser known work:
If you can`t do the time,
Don`t commit the crime.
As Lord Denning said:
Be you ever so mighty , the law is above you.
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07/11/2009, 3:09 PM
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Richard
Joined on 08/01/2004
Posts 274
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 wallis wrote: | | Richard my 'evidence' is only hearsay, to wit... ... the judge is reported to have said, in terms, that Gooda was 'of value' to the army because he 'speaks an Aghan dialect' therefore, if we follow this judge's logic down the well-trodden path of reductio ad absurdum, the very same offence committed under identical conditions by a squaddie who did NOT speak an Afghan dialect may have resulted in the judge coming to a different view is that not stark raving bonkers? or wot |
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Wallis. There has been, and never will be an identical case, Similar circumstances yes. That is why a judge has to consider each case on its merits. So therefore the judge may or may not come to the same decision.
In his thinking a judge can look back on similar cases, but in the end his decision must be based on the actual case in question.
It is not stark raving bonkers, it just a way of ensurering that fair and honest judgement is given.
MKJ. Just to remind you Daniel Gooda, was cleared of manslaughter and common assault but found guilty of affray, which he was sentenced to 28 weeks in prison suspended for 12 months.
suspended sentence n. in criminal law, a penalty applied by a judge to a defendant convicted of a crime, which the judge provides will not be enforced (is suspended) if the defendant performs certain services, makes restitution to persons harmed, stays out of trouble, or meets other conditions. Should the sentenced party fail to follow these requirements, then the suspended sentence may be enforced.
Which In my opinion is a good decision. As it gets Gooda away from drink for a few months and hopeful the other guys out there will keep him in check.
Live your Dream Ask me how?
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07/11/2009, 3:21 PM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 3,173
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As long as he sits his suspended sentence out behind a desk, he is no example to others in Afghanistan. nevermind
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EDP24 Forums » EDP24 General » News » Prince Of Wales Road
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