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25/10/2009, 5:19 PM Snybarb Joined on 31/03/2005 Posts 573 Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time. Gitshagger I take it you mean this bit : Kids don't speak English in class The myth: According to Sir Andrew Green of Migration Watch: "There are more than 300 primary schools in which over 70 per cent of pupils have English as a second language." The reality: Figures from the DfE in 2007 show that in inner London primary schools, 53.4 per cent spoke a dialect other than English as their main language, while in secondary schools it was 49.3. which, as I read it, was  pointing out the exaggeration  "over 70%" , rather than denying that there is still a problem in some areas. My whole point in posting the article was to try to bring in a measure of moderation/reasonableness into an argument which could otherwise become two extremes slanging each other. Yes, there ARE problems to face , and overcome, but please don't start rabble-rousing , a la Griffin. Snybarb      Report

25/10/2009, 5:25 PM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 3,173 Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.  gitshagger wrote: Britain is and continues to be swamped with immigrants, the report is meaningless rubbish. John    The report is meanigless to you, because you chose to not get it into your thick scull, thats why, the language you use is that of the papers you read, gitshagger, 'swamping and mass migration' are exactly the sort of noises they release after a long day.   Librarian, You say you do not get figures on those migrants who come here, work and live here and pay taxes here? Well the last time I looked, taxes accrued from immigrants stood at 4 billion. Now you want to stir it a little because you seem to think that those who come here get preferential services. Why don't you try and fall ill in Poland or Germany, or France, or become ill why you are working in Europe, or unemployed whilst living in Germany with your German girlfriend, you will find that you can access help and support over there, without some bigot baying for your brood to be erradicated, thats 1930's politics.   There are reciprocal agreements on looking after each other in Europe, something the BNP does and cannot see, or does not want to mention, all they see is people who don't look or act like themselves, who might not enjoy the braying binge drinking they call culture, so they raise the immigration issue, anything from stopping to talk about their economic policies. What are they going to feed britain on outside Europe, what are they going to do with the increasing number of pernsioners if these white indigenous working class young binge drinkers can't come up to scratch and pay their taxes, eh?   Far from moaning, the BNP should adopt and agree that immigrants doing valuable and first class workmanship in Britain, not your usual Johnny come lately, quick fix and getaway merchants, but apprenticed labour, from countries were quality workmanship does still matter and were guilds still have a handle on crafts. Go round London and ask people who their builders, plumbers and carpenters are, find out something about them, rather than taking the word of a sad Nick Griffin and some arse chanting papers for gospel. nevermind              Report

25/10/2009, 5:38 PM ChristopherE Joined on 04/01/2006 Posts 1,911 Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time. Yes the kids in schools speak. But perhaps not the English that you or I would understand. I am going back 20 years to the times of daughters education. Tower block children, sometimes came for birthday parties. "cor you live in a castle", (our house). All white, few could speak English as she is spoke. Nice children though. I hope they have done well. ce    Report

25/10/2009, 5:46 PM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 3,173 Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.  ChristopherE wrote: Yes the kids in schools speak. But perhaps not the English that you or I would understand. I am going back 20 years to the times of daughters education. Tower block children, sometimes came for birthday parties. "cor you live in a castle", (our house). All white, few could speak English as she is spoke. Nice children though. I hope they have done well. ce hence the latest wheeze, interpreters to take calls from Glasgow. The queens english might not be everyone's tongue but pidgin english you could understand after a while, much better than your average east ender from Canning town. nevermind    Report

25/10/2009, 6:01 PM ChristopherE Joined on 04/01/2006 Posts 1,911 Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time. Not sure, depends if they were talking backwards. That always "delffab" me.  I guess the code breakers would have understood. E. erepostrisch. Tried to do it backwards. But like maths I can't do it . ce    Report

25/10/2009, 6:41 PM gitshagger Joined on 05/01/2009 kent/norfolk Posts 262 Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time. Papers I read? I like the times on sunday and if I buy a paper in the week its the good old torygraph. I base my views on immigration not on what I read and not on what the BNP try to tell us. Let me tell you the various places I lived in London are now suburbs of the third world and this is happening {and is indeed already happened in some Kent towns} all over, how do I know ? Its because I open my eyes for Gods sake! Or am I imagining it? Perhaps you should have listened less to your socialology lecturer and look at whats really happening in Britain. Get this into your thick skull, I do not want my country turned into bangladesh kosovo jamacia or anywhere else.  I cannot pretend to be the most liberal of people but I have always tried to be positive regarding people of other colours and cultures after all who we are and what we are is nothing more than a quirk of fate but if people cannot see that Britain is heading for disaster because of immigration then I can only assume they have their head stuck up their own bum. John   An expert on everything who is always right and general big `ead.    Report

25/10/2009, 7:37 PM Doctor K Joined on 08/02/2009 Posts 128 Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.  Snybarb wrote: Gitshagger I take it you mean this bit : Kids don't speak English in class The myth: According to Sir Andrew Green of Migration Watch: "There are more than 300 primary schools in which over 70 per cent of pupils have English as a second language." The reality: Figures from the DfE in 2007 show that in inner London primary schools, 53.4 per cent spoke a dialect other than English as their main language, while in secondary schools it was 49.3. which, as I read it, was  pointing out the exaggeration  "over 70%" , rather than denying that there is still a problem in some areas. My whole point in posting the article was to try to bring in a measure of moderation/reasonableness into an argument which could otherwise become two extremes slanging each other. Yes, there ARE problems to face , and overcome, but please don't start rabble-rousing , a la Griffin. Snybarb   As I read it BOTH those statistics may be true and don't conflict with each other.   The inner London percentages are bad enough but the 70% could still apply taken over midland and northern towns which,  like Leicester and Bradford,  are now populated by a majority of foreign families of various nationalities    Report

25/10/2009, 7:57 PM wallis Joined on 10/07/2008 Posts 5,240 Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time. nevermind "hence the latest wheeze, interpreters to take calls from Glasgow." 'tis trew it was in the papaers I'm orf to Glasgie for a few days over the Festering Season my nieces [of burundian descent] live there now they're 10 and 12 and speak broad Glaswegian... to the extent that I really can't understand 'em! [and I'm accustomed to accents from all over the place...] but when I ask them to make a special effort for the silly old sod [moi] they can and do speak in a charming western scottish accent which is perfectly comprehensible they can even do BBC English if they want to! they also speak fluent Kirundi, Kiswahili, Lingala, and Frainch they may be daft [they ARE daft] but they ain't stoopid! and because Scotland is a civilised country, they can [and will] go to university there without running up humungous personal debts...    Report

25/10/2009, 8:00 PM Storm Joined on 27/07/2009 Posts 379 Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time. Nevermind you seem to be making assumptions that I believe Nick Griffin and the BNP will win the next general election judging by the question you have asked regarding their policies on the economy, Europe etc. I don’t believe I have said or indicated that the BNP would win the next general election. What I am saying is that they are receiving a massive increase in support in the UK, this is very obvious by the panic being caused; which is shaking our current politicians and the biased media right through to their rotten corrupt core. If anyone has not been aware of this then they must have their heads buried somewhere. Even her Majesty and one or two religious leaders have been pulled out their cosy retreats to make statements decrying the BNP. I don’t think the BNP will gain power but what will happen is likely to change the face of politics completely. The Lib, Lab, Con have now got to make big changes to their policies on immigration, Europe, and Afghanistan etc, or they will lose a considerable no of MP’s to Independents, Greens and the BNP. On the subject of how the BNP would manage the economy, that has got to be a joke nevermind we are bankrupt man £170 Trillion in debt, they could hardly make a bigger cock up could they now seriously. As regards to Europe you three countries that have chosen not to join the EU have only partly committed to the EU's economy and regulations: Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland don't seen to be doing to bad do they. 　 And on the subject of immigration, how can anyone can defend the mass immigration that has and is happening is beyond me. We have over 60 million people living on an island that is only suitable for 40 million maximum, with unemployment well on it’s way to 3 million does it make sense to keep letting them in. Only a fool would say yes. And you can’t have it always, you complain like me about the NDR also many like me are complaining about southern England being concreted over to build houses well the reason for these houses and roads, is to accommodate the increasing population. Utter madness. So if you were happy with the mass immigration, it would be hypocritical to complain about all the other things that will come with. And as for Afghanistan get the hell out of it. It can’t be won. It’s so futile. The BNP would pull our troops out I suppose that is wrong as well.    Report

25/10/2009, 8:13 PM Storm Joined on 27/07/2009 Posts 379 Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time. The Truth About Immigration. 'Dishonest' Blair and Straw accused over secret plan for multicultural UK http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1222769/Dishonest-Blair-Straw-accused-secret-plan-multicultural-UK.html Then read the comments.    Report

25/10/2009, 8:30 PM thelibrarian Joined on 27/08/2009 Posts 394 Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time. Nevermind- I though you if anyone would be in favour of openness and freedom of information. Nowhere did I fail to recognise the amount of tax  and economic contribution paid by migrant and immigrant workers- but tell me if you can find out just as easily the debit side? We have constantly been told how good a multicultural society is for us, and so it may be, but it would be nice to know who has been paying for it.Why is fudging by politicians acceptable in some arenas and not others?    Report

26/10/2009, 8:24 AM wallis Joined on 10/07/2008 Posts 5,240 Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time. thelibrarian you ask the impossible, old bean it is in the very nature of globalisation, of the ebb and flow of seasonal and casual labour, of economic migrants, of the gangmaster industry, of 'gangs' a la Auf Widersehen Pet [which was jolly good fun in the 1970s when WE were doin' it, but not such a hoot now that Johnny Foreigner has cottoned on], the Schengen Agreement, people trafficking, 'the informal sector', 'the parallel economy'... that no single government department [IND] or agency, or parastatal body, or quango... or any combination of the above has the foggiest idea about who's here and who isn't and what they're up to and why.    Report

26/10/2009, 10:17 AM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 3,173 Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time. Thanks for answering librarians question to me in such a palatable way wallis and hats off to your young Glaswegian translators, three cheers to the scottish education policy, as well as their compassion in the megrahi case.   Strom, I am against the NDR because it is an unsustainable mode of transport. Looking at the report that has come out looking at the attitudes of drivers to other traffic participants and public health and safety at large, they should have roads taken away and turned inbtom productive fields again, rather than pandering to the same old space wasting means of providing some with a lot, whilst those who make green efforts and /or are old are told to make do with a terrible bus service alone, I want to see an extra mode, a tram, in the equation and if that means at the expense of road users, so be it.   To your other point about the BNP's economic policies. I presume they are in politics and stand at elections to change what they currently see as inadequate or wrong, otherwise they should tell people they are only playing at it.   If they have no economic policies and have not contemplated to run them through one of the treasury model computer programmes, they are putting peoples hope up. You cannot run a party on aspirations alone, there come a point in time when you have to show what you are made off and put your money were your mouth is, locally or nationally.   When you look at the BNP councillors who now lost the election because they were 'useless' according to local voices, themn you get a pretty good idea what they are on about. You can't distant yourself from the national debt nor can you declare the country bankrupt. Look at Norway( roughly 4 million inhabitants and lots of oil wealth), Switzerland( large private banking sector for F1 drivers, drug/arms dealers and bloodthirsty dictators, a massive pharma sector lording it over the worlds health service and a transit country for every European truck going south to north and visa versa), Lichtenstein, ( another Hidihy money hiding hole for ministers and favourite weekend getaway for many european councillors and their mistresses, well off banking sector and ,againa small population density, a common in all three.   You want to compare yourselfs to nations outside the EU of an equal size, those three are not good comparrissons.   So Strom, which means electricity in german btw., get your plug into a socket and start working out an economic policy for the BNP, they so obviously need it. nevermind      Report

26/10/2009, 1:30 PM gitshagger Joined on 05/01/2009 kent/norfolk Posts 262 Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.       I am sure Storm is big enough and ugly enough to stick up for himself but I must give him my support regarding his comments concerning Liechtenstein Norway and Switzerland. What you fail to mention regarding these three countries is that they have one thing in common, ie, they put themselves and their own economies first. I cannot understand why so many people wet themselves when speaking of opting out of the EU, its as though they think history started last week, I for one will celebrate when we get out of this rotten corrupt stinking federal dogs dinner. John  An expert on everything who is always right and general big `ead.    Report

26/10/2009, 3:39 PM Scaramouche Joined on 02/04/2006 obscure Posts 1,935 Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time. Watched Question Time on cable from the comfort of a flat in Amsterdam after a particularly fine Javanese Ricetable. Well, one wouldn't want to miss a major media event, and experience has taught me that in television, the bigger the moment, the more likely the greater scale of cockup. The BBC certainly didn't disappoint. It was pretty clear some 48 hours before transmission that Auntie was in a funk and the publicity dept were already countering the Ban BNP on the Box brigade by dropping hints as wide as Trevor Ivory's ass. that Griffin and his views would be profoundly challenged  and examined. Which meant of course that it was always going to be a Kangaroo jobbie. Its ironic that even whose who work in media, and especially those in BBC current affairs, consistently fail to take into account that trial by television is the worst sort of two-edged sword. With the sheer amount of media and information we now have crammed into us, most people in Britain use the TV and Tabloids (er- similar), merely to reinforce their prejuduces, rather than to widen their horizons. Sort of  - never mind the content, just cop the profile. Anyone  who watched Boris Johnson's on screen convolutions imnmediately prior to the mayoral elections (a cringe-making display that Steve Coogan would have been proud to parody), would recall that despite his inane public performance, Boris went on to win handsomely. You see the, the London electors had already decided they were going to have him and not the Newt. Eyes an' Ears evidence that he was a cretin, wasn't going to make any difference. Which is why Podgy Nick has seen his party ratings rise after a showing which really should have sunk them. You see: the media does have enormous influence. It's just not the infuence it thinks it has. You can never safely underestimate an audience.    Report

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