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   25/10/2009, 8:40 AM
Doctor K is not online. Last active: 20/11/2009 19:11:13 Doctor K

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Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.
I think most people understand what the BNP and Nick Griffin are about - the problem is that he represents some (or most) of a lot of feelings which are supressed by PC.  Hitler tapped the same abundant source in prewar Germany..  But still we see the main parties shivering in the wings while the BNP struts centre stage.   They need to do a lot of thinking about how to unravel the social distortions of new Labour without causing pain to those immigrants already established and proud to be British.

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   25/10/2009, 12:33 PM
nevermind is not online. Last active: 17/11/2009 09:16:36 nevermind

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Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.
before you run away with your BNP sloganising here strom, can you just tell us a bit about their economic policies, how trade is going to flourish outside the EU and what sort of taxation we can expect under this oh so caring BNP? Don't start whinging about immigration just tell us the opportunities they will create and how they sort out the pension crisis, the debt crisis, what they propose to do with Trident, how they will defend Britain, again, outside a EU with its owwn defense minister and army.
 
You seem to think that you will win a seat in Parliament, so spill the beans, don't expect the british electorate to just vote along your lines of immigration, thats not an economic policy. nevermind
 

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   25/10/2009, 1:23 PM
gitshagger is not online. Last active: 20/11/2009 21:45:03 gitshagger

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Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.

Good morning Nevermind, this may come as a shock to you but Britain did actually

exist before the EU...!!

John


An expert on everything who is always right and general big `ead.
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   25/10/2009, 1:31 PM
nevermind is not online. Last active: 17/11/2009 09:16:36 nevermind

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Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.
 gitshagger wrote:

Good morning Nevermind, this may come as a shock to you but Britain did actually

exist before the EU...!!

John

 
Not a schock at all dearest, you be surprised to know that britains great Cities once belonged to the fore runner of the EU in the 14th. century 'the Hanse', meaning Hanseatic states.
Still, we would like to know from our politicians and those aspiring to become MP's what their economic policies are, unless you want to just vote for them come what may.
What will happen to your pension under the BNP and what prospects of working until you're 75, as planned by their favourite opposite, the Conservatives. Will they want to introduce national service, make benefit receivers work for their money? so many questions to answer. Come on storm, give us a serious blast of economic sense, as seen by the BNP. nevermind

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   25/10/2009, 1:43 PM
gitshagger is not online. Last active: 20/11/2009 21:45:03 gitshagger

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Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.

Nevermind, it was not that long ago you were telling us with great confidence and on

repeated occasions that the unhinged Craig Murray was about to make some kind of

political breakthrough, well we all know what happened. Perhaps your political instinct

is not as finely tuned as you would have us believe.

John


An expert on everything who is always right and general big `ead.
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   25/10/2009, 2:29 PM
thelibrarian is not online. Last active: 21/11/2009 11:53:12 thelibrarian

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Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.
With no desire to make wallis and nevermind turn blue in the face with rage and just an observation since we are talking about economics now- when has anyone seen figures that analyse the cost of immigration?  We very rarely hear from the media that the first wave of mass immigration was actually invited to avert union strangle holds on some sectors and to drive wages down, much in the same way as BMs latter day invitation to workers from Europe. How can we tell what proportion of the national budget has been spent since 1960 on unemployment benefits and social benefits and housing for those who were not originally British nationals and their children? What proportion has been spent on coping with problems in education and social problems arising within the communities made up of migrants? Would this spending still have been needed  if places like Tower Hamlets and urban areas across the country had not become centres of settlement for migrants.
We hear so much about the economic pros of immigration but very little about any economic cons- not surprising since apparently despite a lot of box ticking,  the census is one of the few places to reveal statistics on unemployment.There we find that in 2001 the rate of unemployment for men from several ethnic minorities, with the exception of those from the Indian community, was double that of the rest of the UK population. We also hear rather a lot on  the lines of "we could not have done without " applied to workers in the NHS etc, but never someone pointing out that for every migrant doctor or nurse a British student perfectly capable of training was denied a place- and that nurse's wages and conditions were probably driven down.
Is it that we are not allowed to ask these sort of questions or is there no answer? If at the most basic level one can see a school budget having to accommodate extra spending to cope with the needs of an immigrant community is it wrong to wonder how the budget of the country has been affected?
You will never hear me endorsing far right policies but it would be better to be open about stuff like this instead of  slapping us on the head and telling us by being concerned we are showing unacceptable behaviour.

Hanseatic League Nevermind-  a trading monopoly -Hansa ports included Kings Lynn, Great Yarmouth, Boston and Hull. Only Hanseatic warehouse left in England is in Kings Lynn- used to pass it every morning on my way to school
Glad someone else pointed it out to doubting Wallis

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   25/10/2009, 2:39 PM
nevermind is not online. Last active: 17/11/2009 09:16:36 nevermind

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Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.
 gitshagger wrote:

Nevermind, it was not that long ago you were telling us with great confidence and on

repeated occasions that the unhinged Craig Murray was about to make some kind of

political breakthrough, well we all know what happened. Perhaps your political instinct

is not as finely tuned as you would have us believe.

John

John I want to know what the BNP's economics are how much taxes they are going to rbing down on us, what their pesnion plans are and what they think of continuing with PFI's, thats the issue here, all your desperate changing of tunes will not do, tell us what the BNP is about, not what I once had to say about this or that candidate. Stop being obstructive, or start your own thread. nevermind

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   25/10/2009, 3:23 PM
wallis is not online. Last active: 16/11/2009 14:30:36 wallis



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Tongue Tied [:S] Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.
Doctor K

The issues seized upon by the BNP have some resonance, not just with the disaffected 'white out-of-work classes' and dysfunctionals

BTW, while Griffin is busy appropriating nationalistic emblems like Winnie Churchill, he would do well to remember his history [if he knows any] - Churchill, if he had got his way, would have 'institutionalised' [banged up in a loony bin] those very people who form the core support for the BNP. the duds.

but do you really really believe that these same issues would have been better managed by a Tory government since 1997?

or that they will be better managed after thenext GE?

immigration
and what the French call '[social & economic] exclusion'

the first has defied policy makers for generations
the second is hardly Tory ground, is it?

"...while the BNP struts centre stage"
Griffin strutted his stuff
and fluffed his lines

the root causes of the issues are far too important to be left to extremists from any quarter, and certainly extremists who couldn't muster a Cabinet of, say, 28 without picking eachothers' pockets for an abacus
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   25/10/2009, 3:32 PM
wallis is not online. Last active: 16/11/2009 14:30:36 wallis



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Wink [;)] Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.
thelibrarian

er

um

I never entertained any doubts about the Hanseatic League, old bean

in fact I have posted a map of it on this wherry forum!!!

as for turning blue in the face over immigration... I have also posted 'til I am blue in the face [sic] that immigration policy in this country is an appalling mess

so I'm not quite sure whwre you're coming from there, thelibrarian

shirley to gawd yew carn't be confoosin' moi wiv someone else?

by all means cut me to shreds in the hugely unlikely event that you may find a weakness in my line of reasoning...

... but perleeze don't stitich me up like a kipper over stuff that I haven't written
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   25/10/2009, 3:34 PM
wallis is not online. Last active: 16/11/2009 14:30:36 wallis



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Indifferent [:|] Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.
shagger

why 'the unhnged' Craig Murray

he blew the whistle on a thoroughly unsavoury episode in FCO skulduggery

does that make him a villain?
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   25/10/2009, 4:08 PM
gitshagger is not online. Last active: 20/11/2009 21:45:03 gitshagger

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Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.

Good afternoon Mr bukuru, us blokes have all watched strippers and belly dancers

etc etc but we didn`t take them home!

I`m not sure wether I can answer nevermind`s question on the BNP`s economics

as I know very little about the party apart from what I read in the press. As you

know I am vehemently against mass immigration, I am unshakable in my belief

that it will lead to civil war but that does not make me a fan of the BNP.

John


An expert on everything who is always right and general big `ead.
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   25/10/2009, 4:24 PM
Snybarb is not online. Last active: 16/04/2009 10:27:08 Snybarb

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Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.

Perhaps this, from today's IoS, will add to the facts & destroy a few misconceptions :

 

The truth about immigration: Citizenships granted fall by 35,000 in a year

Contrary to claims that Britain is being 'swamped', the net number of incomers to the country has dropped sharply

By Brian Brady and Emily Dugan        The Independent on Sunday     Sunday, 25 October 2009

Britain's immigration rate is decreasing and we are far from being "swamped", according to an official report presented to the Foreign Office last week. The new figures, obtained by The Independent on Sunday, suggest the Government is starting to get immigration under control. They undermine gloomy warnings of "overcrowding" made by pressure groups and parties including the British National Party.

Applications for British citizenship have also shown a marked decline in recent years, as economic turmoil and government shake-ups have had an impact on the numbers attempting to settle in the UK.

The figures undermine the claims of critics such as the BNP leader Nick Griffin (below), who last week told a BBC Question Time audience that "it's time to shut the door because this country is overcrowded". Mr Griffin, ridiculed on the programme for his views on race, homosexuality and Islam, responded to criticism the following day by complaining that London – where the programme was filmed – had been "ethnically cleansed" and was "no longer British".

Despite a broadly negative response to his comments, he appeared to hit a nerve when he accused the Government and the media of failing to address the issue of people's concern about immigration. One poll taken after his appearance on Question Time found that more than one in five people would "seriously consider" voting for his party. The level of potential support YouGov recorded for the BNP was more than three times the 6.2 per cent it secured in this June's European Parliament ballot – its best-ever showing in a national election.

Concern over the issue continues to rise: in the decade up to 2004, the pollsters Mori found the percentage of adults saying immigration was the biggest issue facing Britain had risen from 5 per cent to 30 per cent.

But the new figures, compiled by the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) suggest that, while immigration into the UK remains high compared with the rest of Europe, the problem is not as acute as many believe. Above all, officials point out that the rate of immigration into Britain is slowing, while the rate of emigration is rising. The number of foreign nationals entering Britain fell from 460,000 in 2006 to 441,000 in 2008, while, during the same period, the total of foreigners leaving rose from 173,000 to 237,000. The number of citizenship applications granted fell by 35,000, to 130,000, in a single year up to 2008.

"There's a lot of concern among so-called ordinary people about high levels of recent immigration," said Tim Finch, head of migration at IPPR. "But it's striking that people are keen not to articulate that as being the fault of immigrants. The perception that the Government hasn't been controlling it is what's upsetting them."

However, the increased prominence given to the race/immigration issue appears to have emboldened some people to use it as an excuse for conflict: after a general decline, racist attacks have gone up by 20,000 this year. According to Home Office reports, in 2006-07, 61,262 racist incidents were reported to the police, an increase of 3.7 per cent over the previous year, and a 28 per cent increase over the past five years. Approximately half the police forces in England and Wales reported an increase in racially and religiously motivated incidents.

Yet Mr Finch insists that the people he has interviewed are eager to point out that they are not motivated by race "or not wanting to live in a multicultural society".

He added: "It suits the far right to paint this scary picture, but that's not the case. The numbers have changed Britain, but there hasn't been a negative impact on many areas of society because of immigration."

The IoS's snapshot of people across a range of races and cultures appears to confirm this. Despite the furore over Mr Griffin and his party, Britain's experience of race relations is an overwhelmingly positive one. Every day, across Britain, people of all races interact routinely, naturally. The stories on the following pages represent the majority, rather than an unhappy minority.

Myth and reality: Sorting the facts from the fiction on immigration

Britain isn't British any more

The myth: Nick Griffin claimed that "we, the indigenous British people, will become an ethnic minority in our own country well within 60 years – and most likely sooner".

The reality: The Celtic Britons were conquered by the Romans, who were replaced by the Anglo-Saxons after they left; followed by the Vikings, the Normans, the Italians, more Germans, the Irish, Jews, Indians, West Indians...

Immigrants are responsible for violent crime

The myth: Many newspaper articles claim crime is caused by immigration. The Daily Mail said in August that one in every five killers is an immigrant. In 2008 the Daily Express quoted the chief constable of Kent, Mike Fuller, as blaming "migration surges" for a 35 per cent rise in violent crime in the county.

The reality: Over a three-year period ending in 2006-07, the Government reported 23 racially motivated homicides. In Scotland and N Ireland, attacks on new immigrants from within the EU continued to be reported at a high rate. Racist and religiously motivated offences totalled 39,643 in 2007-08, the last year for which UK statistics are available. It was 21,750 ten years ago.

Migrants are taking our jobs

The myth: "Nearly all the jobs created in the UK since 2001 have gone to immigrants – not British-born workers," claimed Sir Andrew Green, the chairman of Migration Watch.

The reality: The economic forecasters Oxford Economics said: "Migrant workers now account for 11 per cent of UK jobs. Within Europe, the UK has a lower overall migrant employment share than many developed countries, including Spain, Germany, Ireland and Sweden."

Immigrants get priority housing

The myth: "Well-meaning welfare programmes have been exploited to become nothing more than a free handout to scroungers, foreign and local," said the BNP.

The reality: A study for the Equality and Human Rights Commission in July found that 1.8 per cent of social tenants had moved to Britain within the past five years. Nearly 90 per cent were British-born.

Racist crime is on the rise

The myth: A relentless and increasing tide of racist attacks is sweeping through Britain, as the BNP and its supporters become emboldened by electoral success, according to anti-fascist campaigners.

The reality: According to Home Office reports, in 2006-07, 61,262 racist incidents were reported to the police, an increase of 3.7 per cent over the previous year. Among these, there were 42,551 racially or religiously aggravated offences, representing a 2.6 per cent increase over the previous year.

Muslims want sharia law in UK

The myth: "There are a lot of things that happen in Trafalgar Square that should not happen – the drugs, the alcohol," said the radical Muslim extremist Anjem Choudary. "Under sharia law it would be a different environment and atmosphere."

The reality: A British Muslims for Secular Democracy spokesman said: "We are proud of the heritage of this country and British heroes like Nelson and Churchill have made this country the place it is today. It reflects badly on the entire Muslim community when this group does these very aggressive activities."

London has been ethnically cleansed

The myth: BNP leader Nick Griffin argued that the Question Time audience was hostile because London had been "ethnically cleansed".

The reality: London is a cosmopolitan world city with residents from 243 different countries. Nearly 70 per cent of those are white, 60 per cent describe themselves as white British, and 70 per cent were born in the UK.

Britain faces immigration crisis

The myth: Roger Martin, chair of the think tank Optimum Population Trust, said: "Britain's population increase is out of control; we are on course for a high-density, low-quality future."

The reality: Before the recession, the number of migrants coming to Britain was roughly on a par with the number leaving Britain. The ONS immigration statistics for the year to December 2008 showed a total of 395,000 people emigrated, up 24 per cent on the year before. They included 237,000 non-Britons, many Eastern Europeans.

Money is being wasted on translation services

The myth: "Translation has been used too frequently and without thought," said the then communities secretary Ruth Kelly in 2007, and people should be encouraged to learn English.

The reality: The former head of the CRE, Trevor Phillips, said: "Translation is a way of helping people in transition to integrate into our society."

Kids don't speak English in class

The myth: According to Sir Andrew Green of Migration Watch: "There are more than 300 primary schools in which over 70 per cent of pupils have English as a second language."

The reality: Figures from the DfE in 2007 show that in inner London primary schools, 53.4 per cent spoke a dialect other than English as their main language, while in secondary schools it was 49.3.

 


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   25/10/2009, 4:46 PM
gitshagger is not online. Last active: 20/11/2009 21:45:03 gitshagger

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Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.

Britain is and continues to be swamped with immigrants, the report is meaningless

rubbish.

John 


An expert on everything who is always right and general big `ead.
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   25/10/2009, 4:48 PM
Snybarb is not online. Last active: 16/04/2009 10:27:08 Snybarb

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Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.
There's none so deaf---------
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   25/10/2009, 5:07 PM
gitshagger is not online. Last active: 20/11/2009 21:45:03 gitshagger

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Re: Nick Griffin On Question Time.

I have just re-read the number of kids and the percentage who speak non english

as their first dialect in London schools, yes Snybarb their is none so deaf... but it

is not me.

John


An expert on everything who is always right and general big `ead.
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