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02/09/2009, 4:13 PM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 3,173 Re: The List Grows Today the BBC helped the backlash against the bad news about Karzais drug pushing cabinet ministers. The US policies are in shreds and they are desperate to re address the issue. So they pull out the UN top lapdog Mr. Costa, who proudly declares that Afghanistanbs harvest has dropped by 22%.   Off what? Would that be 22% of last years 400% increase, or the 200% increase the year before? Does this mean 600% minus 22%, leaves an increase of opium production since the Taliban was overthrown of only 578%.   This sort of news management and jiggedy pokery is now becoming daily occurence and our BBC is fully part of it. Our soldiers are dying for false messages, more lies and false statistics, because nobody will believe that we created a democracy after this ballot box stuffing incident by Karzai's men. nevermind    Report

08/09/2009, 3:01 PM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 3,173 Re: The List Grows US troops 'stormed through Afghan hospital' Monday, 7 September 2009 "A Swedish charity accused American troops today of storming through a hospital in central Afghanistan, breaking down doors and tying up staff in a search for militants ..."When they left two hours later, the unit ordered hospital staff to inform coalition forces if any wounded militants were admitted, *and the military would decide if they could be treated, Fange said*. "The staff refused, he said. "That would put our staff at risk and make the hospital a target.""The charity said on its Web site that the troops actions were not only a violation of humanitarian principles but also went against an agreement between NATO forces and charities working in the area." http://tinyurl.com/n83abg (Independent) This is called "winning hearts and minds". After recently blowing up about 100 people in a US airstrike, on two hijacked fuel tankers that had got stuck in mud -- and where local civilians were trying to scoop up some discarded petroleum into buckets. These, some of the poorest people in the world, who have no fuel, no running water, no electricity. Well done the USA. And yes, we are aware that you have a policy of "taking every care" to avoid civilian deaths. And that you're going to "investigate" yourselves. You're going to "investigate" this hospital jaunt too, and we know that's the last we'll ever hear about it. Ah what special relationship indeed, its enough to make you pig sick. I have told my sons today that should they ever decide to join the forces, I will write them out of my will as the last option, I will not let my children be wasted for self centred crooks and politicians, to save the reign of some opium pushers. OMDB. nevermind    Report

13/09/2009, 7:37 PM Storm Joined on 27/07/2009 Posts 377 Re: The List Grows Yesterday Iraq, today Afghanistan, tomorrow Somalia? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jihad-the-somalia-connection-1786608.html    Report

13/09/2009, 11:36 PM Rupert Joined on 19/11/2007 Posts 1,410 Re: The List Grows I wonder how many of the 'young Britons' mentioned in the article have more than one nationality? It's very strange.  Some years ago (not many) when English football fans were noted for rioting at football matches, the government managed to withdraw their passports to prevent them from travelling to matches overseas. According to the article cited by Storm, there are now thousands of people travelling overseas to train as terrorists ... yet the government can't (or rather can't be bothered) to stop them? Presumably, if the government know how many have left and where they went then - because they show a passport when they do leave - they know who they are. If the government feel that those individuals represent some sort of security risk, then they could either be stopped from leaving, or their passports could be stamped 'not valid for re-entry into the United Kingdom'. If the government can stop a football hooligan from leaving the country, why can't they stop a trainee terrorist?   Rupert    Report

25/09/2009, 8:56 AM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 3,173 Re: The List Grows Only if that individual wants to travel Rupert, if you stay putt they have to make the first move.   It has been reported via some back channels in the FCO that Israel's nuclear arsenal is now bigger than Britains, so soon we can rely on them for our defense requirements should we now all disarm, except for israel that is?.   I'm sure that some in rightwing Britain will be supporting such a move. nevermind    Report

01/10/2009, 9:35 AM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 3,173 Re: The List Grows Here is a clever make up construction of Israels Dimona facillity producing three times more material as previously estimated, which make it plausible that Israel now posesses more nuclear weapons than Britain, under no one's control as that of a rabid Netanyahu and a line of secretive obstructive Governments that did nothing to live in peace withtheir neighbours. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbjgDERSuiI&feature=player_embedded   Israel has no intentions to stop their land grab and a boycott of their goods and services, including their highly lucrative, unique laser guided plutonium seperation process, is one way of telling them.   Another would be sanctions, UN sanctions against its continuous and rapacious bad relationships with its neighbours and the world community at large. Failing that, there are always vital US funds, crippling as they are to every administration, feeling compelled to shell out this money in return for votes, they could be cut off.   The wrold has now become more dangerous than when it was controlled by two large blocks, these rogues represent a safety deficit of some proportions and they should be reigned in. If Iran is producing nuclear weapons as a response to the secretive threats from Israel, then it is something that needs addressing diplomatically. Israels nuclear weapons should be a bargaining chip on the table, equally, just as those yet ficvtitious weapons Ahmadinedjad is apparently producing, both countries arsenals should be to discussion I'm sure it would help with the effort to bring peace to the middle east. nevermind    Report

15/10/2009, 12:21 PM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 3,173 Re: The List Grows In a move to further push Fatah and Hamas into turmoil, despite the help metted out to Abbas PA in the west bank, Avigdor Liebermann, official Moldovian bouncer in charge of Israels foreign affairs, said that' the PA did their best to indicate to Israel to go all the way in their campaign in Gaza'. Judge Goldstone, whos report has been kept away from the security council voting booth by zionist lobbying and arm twisting, has clearly said that war crimes have been committed by both sides and that both sides should ideally undertake war crimes tribunals. What it does not do is provide peace, stop the settlements by a stubborn Netanyahu, nor does it stop the interference of Israel in other countyries media. Today also, Israel complained to Turkey for depicting the IDF as child killers on a populat TV programme. Those of you who can remember the little girl shot in Rafa and the boy shot in Nablus, would probably agree. I blame the psychological attitudes fostered in the IDF's training, using the 'choosen one's ' as an ideal to defend is a powerfull motivator to nationalists, we all know where that leads to. Saeb Erekat, the palestinan negotiator in the UN has said that he will expose the Arab countries who voted for the postponement of the vote in order to placate Israel, it was not just Abbas, he said. nevermind http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8297698.stm    Report

15/10/2009, 11:37 PM Steam Joined on 08/02/2009 Posts 67 Re: The List Grows There seems to be an awful lot of misunderstanding here about Afghanistan and why we are there. I really don't think many people realise the level of danger the west is threatened with from the Islamic radical, it certainly isn't anything to do with the poppy harvest as successive governments would have had you believe. Heroin my friends is simply a smokescreen put up in order to mask the real dangers - though I'm not too sure now just how many of todays western politicians understand the reality of the Islamic question.  I spent three years in Pakistan talking to many people about Islam, that was circa 1979 - 1982. Back to the UK I told anyone who would listen that we were in deep do-do with Muslims worldwide - no one was in the slightest interested. As with Hitler in the thirties who took note of the unwillingness of the people of Britain and USA to take him seriously so with Islamic radicals since the 1945. Had not we taken them on in Iraq/Afghanistan after 9/11 believe me they would have done what Adolf did. If we pull out of Afghanistan the war will not go away, it will eventually be continued here on the streets of Britain.    Report

16/10/2009, 11:19 AM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 3,173 Re: The List Grows Its rather misinformation than misunderstanding Steam. Afghanistan is at the brink of civil war, not because we have introduced a shadow of democracy or have made some schools in Kabul work, but because we are, in their eyes occuoying their country. Growing poppy is a way of live in Afghanisatn that is not erradicated by threats, but rather by world prices for other commodities. This year we saw a tiny drop in cultivation because whet is becoming a viable alternative. Politically we have backed the wrong man, although pashtun, Karzai was a director UNOCAL, an oil company more interested in using Afghanisatn as a transit country and building a pipeline, than with the population. Since karzai has been in power, he has sold off resource abstartion rights to China and the US, all in backroom deals amongst his cabinet, not a single measure was debated or discussed in Government. He is consistently saying that more Afghan soldiers will be joining coaltion forces, but they are not well motivated, they are keeping their stroing tribal allegiances and will rather get out of the way than fight for what we are fighting.   The crux is that the Afghan psyche does not allow any other nation to be in their country for too long. We have overstayed and the Taliban  feeds on the need to fight the occupation. They know their country like the back of their hands, their tactics are admirable when one looks at the ease at which they travel. Underestimation has got us where we are and to throw more troops into the melee will only make the conflict hotter, it is an incentive to the taliban and a recruitng tool to boot.   pakistan has been under the kosh of the ISI for decades, each and every Government has had to make allowances for the fact that the ISI is a Government behind the elected Government, with their own religious hang up. It was the ISI together with the CIA that set up the 'politically motivated' madrassas, a new brand of politicqal islam that was created to defeat the Russians. The CIA could not see that the Russians would have lost in the long run anyway, they created the enemy we are fighting now and nothing will take the motivation away from the Taliban.   In the latest move to get Afghans to fight, the Norther Alliance once successfull against the Taliban is being re armed. these are general Dostums men, a defense minsiter who runs a heroin lab operation under full view of NATO troops and with allied approval. He will advance, as he sees fit, against the Pashtuns of the south and create a rift between president and defense minister, because Karzais loyalties lie with the Pastun tribes, not Afghanistan as a whole.   An alternative policy would be to withdrawl and isolate the Taliban with sanctions, intercept their arms trade and offer famrers better prospects under conventional crops. But as long as Karzai is president, who's relatives in Government are all involved in poppy growing, with their own value adding heroin labs, the vast amount of drugs from Afghanistan will increase. The Taliban does not tarde more than 4% of the poppy harvest, so the vast majority is grown by our allies and under NATO protection.Thats what our soldiers are dying for, the ever changing policies of NATO forces do not help the desperate situation. Arming Dostum and creating more chaos will serve no one, except arms dealers and heroin pushers.   The election has shown that Karzai has had to cheat, he is unpopular with his people, a bastard in their eyes, but we think he's our bastard and despite making noises to the contender Abdullah Abdullah, a man who has a mixed tribal allegiance, he has relatives in the northern alliance as well as with pashtun tribes, the US has decided to stick with Karzai.   That leads me to believe that we are supportiong more chaos and strife, that we are once again generating our own reasons to exists in that war torn country, all in order to keep the construct of a war on terror alive.   Wahabism, a 14th. century hardline fundamentalist muslim sect has found so much support, amongst mainly Saudi citizens first, because islam was essentially unreformed. It was the lack of support they received , with jobs, education and standing in Saudi that made it a selective and secretive militaristic threat, they want to get rid of the Saudi kingdom and spread the wealth. The vast majority of moderate muslims who have not aspired to this unreformed islam are now being tarred with the same brush, indeed here and in America they are being singled out for special attention, regardless, a very unhealthy situation as it breed discontent amongst a homogenous people that already feel slightly alienated here due to some of the rightwing views.   Thanks for your input steam, I think there should be a second round of elections with every polling station being monitored. ideally the Taliban should be invited to participate, but due to their support already in the country and Karzais cheating they decline, its not important to them. This war will not be won by anybody and we should take heed from the various battles we lost there, Gandamak and Maiwand should have taught us a lesson, instead we have to listen to the pathetic polemic from a defunct and skinned Government, naming soldiers who died in this madness and then sending more of them into chaos. nevermind    Report

27/10/2009, 10:46 AM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 3,173 Re: The List Grows The blockade in gaza which started the exchange of missiles and the military action and the war crimes committed is carrying on. The turkish red cross is denied access and some 200 ready build houses are waiting at Egyptian border crossings to be delivered to famileis who are currently living in ruins and ramshackle tents.   Israel is denying Pal;estininas enough water whilst their illegal west bank settlement have swimmingpools and lush green spaces with plenty of water to go round. Thats genocide in another way, by keeping up this iron fist blockade Israelis are gawding hamas into more actions. Then they can turn around to the world in indignation, raise their hand and scream foul, the sign of a de humanised society that is incapable of seeing the plight of others. nevermind    Report

04/11/2009, 10:26 AM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 3,173 Re: The List Grows The land grab continues and Israles judiciary are part of this criminal intent to destabilise palestinian East Jerusalem. But it does not matter much to hard pressed Blair or the EU human rights csars. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8341233.stm But then, we do not respect Human rights here in the new super Europe, the case of Afghani children sleeping rough under Calais bridges, weeks after their camps have been bulldozed, makes this abandonedly clear. At night the police comes and takes their blankets away, given to them by charities, there is no water and at daily charity food hand outs volunteers report that these kids get more and more desperate with winter approaching. The humna rights of a child seems worth even less than that of people living under UN protection. nevermind      Report

04/11/2009, 3:00 PM Just Looking Thanks Joined on 29/09/2009 Thetford Posts 44 Re: The List Grows Today we hear the terrible news the 5 of our troops have been murdered by an Afghani policeman they were supposed to be "mentoring".  Time to get the hell out of there and learn that not everyone wants western democracy.    Report

05/11/2009, 9:09 AM Storm Joined on 27/07/2009 Posts 377 Re: The List Grows So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss. If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose. If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself. Get our troops out of that hell, victory will never come.    Report

05/11/2009, 9:46 AM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 3,173 Re: The List Grows  Storm wrote: So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss. If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose. If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself. Get our troops out of that hell, victory will never come. Out of Afghanistan I can understand, no need to be there, the battle of Maiwand lessons were forgotten and we are still supporting a dodo as president. karzai will be gone in a years time, there will be civil war and unless we follow the advice given by Kim Howell, we will loose more lives and money in Afghanistan, in exchange for increased instability and terrorism at home.nevermind    Report

05/11/2009, 11:31 AM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 3,173 Re: The List Grows And here is a little snippet of what it will mean to be part of the European Union. This little bit of news was not reported here. Virtually unnoticed, last week's EU summit lifted the arms embargo and travel ban on the murderous Karimov regime in Uzbekistan. So now British arms manufacturers can sell arms for Karimov to use against his people again. Indeed, British troops may return to Uzbekistan to teach Karimov's thugs "Marksmanship", as they did before the Andijan massacre which killed over 700 peaceful demonstrators in 2005. There have been no improvements in human rights in Uzbekistan. There remains no freedom of speech, assembly, movement or religion. Thousands of political prisoners slave in the gulags, children are forced into the fields by soldiers to pick the cotton. Thousands still suffer hideous torture every year. But the UK hails "Dialogue" with the Karimov regime on human rights as a reason to end the arms embargo. Germany and Milliband led the internal EU lobbying for Karimov. In March the Obama administration signed a new agreement with Karimov for transit of supplies to Afghanistan, and negotiations are virtually complete for a new US airbase in Uzbekistan. Germany remains focused entirely on the access to Central Asian gas via Gazprom and the Nordstream project. The British remain keen to maintain "Security cooperation" with the unspeakable Uzbek security services. The politicians do it because the media and public do not seem to care, so they think they can get away with it. So far, they are right. With Karzai exposed for the gangster he is and a new alliance with Karimov, the sickness of our Central Asian policy is now stark. Its great to know that our Foreigh secretary care so much about human rights, todays announcement of not letting torture flights land on british teritory is meaningless, they have many other allied airfields to do it. nevermind    Report

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