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02/11/2009, 11:45 AM thelibrarian Joined on 27/08/2009 Posts 394 Another Norfolk pub goes west Along with postmen, milkmen and the post office the village pub is fast disappearing- one near Watton in the paper  today. No doubt there will be all the usual justifications, such as can't seat enough people to be a gastro pub, can't get the drinkers through the doors etc but I have no doubt in my mind that the planners should refuse permission for the company which owns this pub to sell it as a non licenced premises. Not far from where I live a pub has been boarded up. For as long as I have known it-over 30 years- it has been a thriving pub serving part of a large village and large numbers of holiday makers in the season. Word is that the last tenant could not make a go of it because  of the rent which was over £40,000 a year. If more and more of our village pubs ( including the Maltsters at Ranworth) are being bought out by companies specializing in pub ownership, not just breweries, and the tenants are being charged the earth for their beer and rent and bled dry then how can a traditional facility survive? As long as the possibility of selling off the pub and its land for building is there, where is the incentive for the owners to charge a manageable rent? If council planning officers can refuse to lift agricultural occupation restrictions ( which make mortgages more expensive and selling property harder) on unwanted farm housing based on the income and type of farm, then the same planners can look at whether pub owners are charging a feasible rent or whether they have deliberately bought a pub, charged an unrealistic rent in order to close it and sell it off. If pub owning companies cannot keep a tenant in place they should be forced to sell the place as a Free House. In other words, a licensed trade restriction should be just as possible as an agricultural occupation restriction. Then, where an independent landlord is in place, there should be leeway on council tax if they provide an offlicence, a place for a small village shop or even loos for the public.    Report

02/11/2009, 1:16 PM ADRIAN-W Joined on 15/08/2003 Posts 797 Re: Another Norfolk pub goes west Well isn't it time you had a more Democratic system of politics in place / One that could make decisions for the benefit of the people right down to nitey gritty local matters , Seems to me that our lives are now run solely for the profit motive and bugger the human out come , a bit off thread but yesterday I was talking to a postman , (Me )Why the strike ?,(Him ) "Well we (post staff) are being ordered to do more with less staff all the time , and if you dont like it we will find others who will do your job " Oh Nice typical profit at any cost attitude . Pubs and Post offices will do for a start.    Report

02/11/2009, 5:18 PM thelibrarian Joined on 27/08/2009 Posts 394 Re: Another Norfolk pub goes west It is my understanding that the processes and systems are in place- it is just that some private enterprise has so much financial clout that it can continue to challenge rulings until councils feel they can no longer justify the legal expenses to their council tax payers.  The planning departments and councils have the power to prevent a change of use and could use it if they dare.  Depends if the challenge comes from a company with shed loads of money or not- as in the case of the largest village in the country where parish and district council opposed an inappropriate and unwanted housing development but were overruled at a higher level because the housing company could afford to keep pushing and pushing- an option not open to ordinary applicants. This is the real problem-that the system can be pushed to breaking point by money.    Report

03/11/2009, 9:53 AM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 3,173 Re: Another Norfolk pub goes west  thelibrarian wrote: It is my understanding that the processes and systems are in place- it is just that some private enterprise has so much financial clout that it can continue to challenge rulings until councils feel they can no longer justify the legal expenses to their council tax payers.  The planning departments and councils have the power to prevent a change of use and could use it if they dare.  Depends if the challenge comes from a company with shed loads of money or not- as in the case of the largest village in the country where parish and district council opposed an inappropriate and unwanted housing development but were overruled at a higher level because the housing company could afford to keep pushing and pushing- an option not open to ordinary applicants. This is the real problem-that the system can be pushed to breaking point by money.   Absolutely, librarian, and it makes a mockery out of the whole planning system. Further, the section 106 agreements always touted as 'cooperation' with the developers and goodwill to the community, is arbitrary and uninforcable by legal means.   The only way these agreements can be kept is by stipulating that the section 106 goodwill measures are fazed in at the beginning of the project, not at the end, if they then not materialise for spurious reasons, overall building should be halted until builders comply. nevermind    Report

04/11/2009, 7:41 AM Baconsdozen. Joined on 02/09/2003 Lowestoft Posts 1,702 Re: Another Norfolk pub goes west  thelibrarian wrote: It is my understanding that the processes and systems are in place- it is just that some private enterprise has so much financial clout that it can continue to challenge rulings until councils feel they can no longer justify the legal expenses to their council tax payers.  The planning departments and councils have the power to prevent a change of use and could use it if they dare.  Depends if the challenge comes from a company with shed loads of money or not- as in the case of the largest village in the country where parish and district council opposed an inappropriate and unwanted housing development but were overruled at a higher level because the housing company could afford to keep pushing and pushing- an option not open to ordinary applicants. This is the real problem-that the system can be pushed to breaking point by money. There should be a limit on the number of appeals allowed and the whole business of providing playing fields,roundabout etc smells of bribery and should be stopped.Too much secrecy,too much bending of rules,too many strings getting pulled and too much big money involved (and thats not only the Tory run councils).   WDC and its caravan site.    Report

04/11/2009, 8:25 AM thelibrarian Joined on 27/08/2009 Posts 394 Re: Another Norfolk pub goes west The EDP yesterday carried a report that the council had gone against the planners advice and refused consent for a change of use. One person was reported as saying that the owners had spent two years marketing it so could say they had tried. As for 25 covers not being enough-maybe if they made a determined effort they might get listed building consent for a dining room. Certainly from the comments on this blog by 2007 tenants, it looks as if the previous owners Admiral Inns didn't give a toss and failed to support the tenants they put in and neglected the maintenance. http://www.caston-online.co.uk/blog.asp?blogid=1041 Further on in the EDP report it says this Anna Metcalfe, from Chapel Partners, which has owned the pub for six months, said afterwards that she was disappointed at the decision.So it seems the pub could be sold in the last two years-one wonders why Chapel Partners bought it if they had no intention of opening up again as a pub? I could be entirely wrong and there is no one out there willing to take on a pub being sold as a free house or it could be that the building is worth far more to the seller as a domestic house.  I acknowledge that these are changing times for pubs, but the chains which buy up pubs don't seem to be doing villages many favours.One wonders also what effect business rates have on the number of rural businesses , shops and pubs , closing down.    Report

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