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 30/05/2009, 10:43 AM
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Bowater
 
Joined on 26/05/2009
Posts 435
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![Sad [:(]](/CS/emoticons/emotion-6.gif)
Prince Of Wales Road
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It was going to be a good night, a few drinks, something to eat, then on to some clubs.
May be bit too much drink was consumed by some, an accidental collision between two people, errupts into full blown fight, fists and boots fly in, more people get involved, In the haze of alcohol you cant tell whats happening, after a few what seems like hours but are probably at most a couple of minutes the fighting is broke up by the police and everything calms down.
But there a fellow lying there motionless, paramedics are called and fortunately the man is only slightly concussed with a gash on his forehead. He is helped into a waiting ambulance and taken to hospital to receive treatment for the wound. It a scene that was decribed to me by a young person who was in Prince Of Wales Rd a few weeks ago. I am told it happens on a fairly regular basis on that particular road at some time most weeks.
Are you surprised, you encourage thousands of young people into a small area such as Prince of Wales Rd, feed them a cocktail of strong alcohol, and the results are fairly predictable.
But things have took a turn for the worse, 2 people have been killed, some serious injuries have been sustained,and young people have lost their lives in the river.
Who do we blame ? Have the police lost control of that area?, is the control of thousands of drunken people too much for their resources.? Are the authorities who have allowed all these night clubs to open in one small area, close to a river at fault.?
Should the night clubs who make millions from these young people pay for extra security.? How long will it allowed to go on getting more and more out of control, with and I hope not more lives being lost, or serious injuries being sustained, before some serious action is taken.?
Just put yourself in the place of the parents or friends who have had their loved ones taken from them, all in the name of a good night out.
Some serious questions must be asked and a resolution must found soon. as next it could be someone you know.
" Just because I care"
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30/05/2009, 11:27 AM
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ROBERT
Joined on 16/08/2003
NR Gt. Yarmouth
Posts 4,226
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Its the same old story....if you don`t have the available punishment to fit and deter the said crime or unwanted situation. Then the crime or situation is bound to continue or develope into something worst.
We have a binge culture that all concerned, that is government downwards has not bothered to to come down heavy enough on the drinkers who refuse to act in a responsible manner. This has been going on for 10 years or more and tv programmes have been devoted to the growing culture of it all without the government taking any heavy imput to stop it.
Caught drunk in the street should be an offence of a least 3 days in a police cell and a £100 a day fine, doubled on each repeated offence. It will only affect those who are stupid enough to drink to excess in public. The police should pick them off one by one from clubs and other outlets of mass drinking. People should also be employed in the clubs and bars to monitor and eject those heavy drinkers and be fined for everyone that exits the premises drunk.
Those that get caught will have to explain why they cannot attend their employment and thats their problem not anyone elses.
It won`t stop all but it will in time change our drink culture back to a more normal state.
Stupidity should not be an excepted state from some to be endured by others.
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30/05/2009, 11:30 AM
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Lector
Joined on 13/06/2005
North West Norfolk
Posts 207
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I believe that one answer would be to withdraw the licence of an 'Club' when it can be demonstrated that the drunkeness originated in that premise. Advantages: one less drinking emporium, very strong message to other such establishments and reduction of drunken outspill into Prince of Walesn Road.
Disadvatges, difficulty of proof, and possibly , merely moving the problem to somewhere else.
Bear in mind that this is not a modern phenomena crowds always gathered in Town Centres after chucking out time and the Police managed to control the situation. I am talking 55 years ago mind you but very often the control was exercised by a single Officer on his own without benefit of radio or a fortiori near assistance..
(Garrulous reminiscences being a penalty of old age.)
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30/05/2009, 11:32 AM
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Lector
Joined on 13/06/2005
North West Norfolk
Posts 207
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30/05/2009, 12:40 PM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 3,173
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I agree with you lector, if the license is withdrawn for lets say 1/2/3/4/5/ years, or forever, depending on the severity of disorder and violence in the respective club, then this order should apply to the club, a change of ownership should not be able to re open the club a week after the incident.
By all means this decision could be made by a panel of citizens with guidance, no need to bother expensive judges and hordes of solicitors in such straight forward cases. local re occuring antisocial promotion of disorder by means of dispensing booze to people already drunk as sailors is a menace on the surrounding area.
It leaves a pleasant neighbourhood stinking like a puma cage, due to ill trained young brains mainly, food litter attracts hordes of rats and other vermin, but imho, a little more responsibility to the locals can be trained and if it takes 20 years.
Once customers and licenscees have learned, it will be publicans who control each other, because they do not ever would want such a spot light put on them again.
If on the other hand some lawyer will argue the toss, split economic hairs and points to the damage it would cause to the owners life..., leaving the local neighbours vomitaria not get their slice of justice and redress, then we are whisling up the wrong alley, would you not think lector? nevermind
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30/05/2009, 1:05 PM
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Bowater
Joined on 26/05/2009
Posts 435
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Two men have died recently, one man critically ill in hospital and I have now read comment as follows:
Chief Supt Scully said: “I think it's deeply shocking but it's fair to say the events over the last few days are very rare. It's unfortunate that there has been a second serious incident that has resulted in tragedy.
Richard Attoe, chairman of the Norwich City Licensing Forum and company director of Media in Prince of Wales Road, said the area has actually been improving recently a lot of work is going on behind the scenes to help prevent incidents such as this.
Julian Foster, chairman of the Norwich Citizens' Forum, said he does not think the street is any more dangerous than it has been.
Why are these incidents being played down people for God sake people are losing their lives.
Could it be that the people that are playing these incident down, because they are failing in their efforts to do anything about it.
And if I hear anyone say again that Norwich is a safe place i'll scream, try walking from the city centre, home say to Cromer rd area regulary about 2.30am every morning and you would not say that for long.
Get real.
" Just because I care"
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30/05/2009, 5:56 PM
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Bowater
Joined on 26/05/2009
Posts 435
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I would have to agree with that, apart from it is too late. There are too many clubs, pubs, kebab joints, in one relatively small area. Major planning mistakes have been made. The police haven't got the resources to deal with it, and I beleive are relying on being more reactive than proactive. You pack thousands of relatively young people who have consumed large quantities of alcohol, and god knows what else, you have a recipe for disaster. Now after several tragedies, no one wants to take any blame and you are getting crass statements like it was getting better, Norwich is still a very safe city.Try telling that to the bereaved. And for the clubs, the punters turn intoxicated, not always that noticable when 90% are much the same, they aren't going to cut their own throats and only allowing in 10%. They can only deal within problems inside the club, the majority of problems occur outside. No one today is ever prepared to stand up today and say we have got this seriously wrong. we need something done fast. And as for the residents I am told most live under curfew Locked in most nights from 18.00 to 06.00
" Just because I care"
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30/05/2009, 6:45 PM
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Dek
Joined on 15/08/2003
Norwich
Posts 1,191
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I agree with you Lynda. What was once a very pleasant road, I would say one of the smartest in the city, has now become what must be one of the seediest looking streets it Norfolk. Apart from it`s width I would liken it to Strait Street it Malta as it was in the 50s. And I dare say many who were there would agree. Who on earth consumes all of the food that is prepared there ? Not to mention that which is left on the paths . Fingers up...to `A Fine City` Dek,
Laugh, and the wife laughs with you. Snore and you`ll sleep alone.
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30/05/2009, 11:57 PM
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ChristopherE
Joined on 04/01/2006
Posts 1,911
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Well I can't always know what happens in Norwich after dark.
Locally, Ben Kinsella was slaughtered by a gang of boys not wanting to lose face.
They have real problems now.
In the local news, the Kinsellas were related to the Adams family.
It won't end with their prosecution or eventual release.......
ce
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31/05/2009, 7:47 AM
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Dek
Joined on 15/08/2003
Norwich
Posts 1,191
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Oh , by the way the name for which Strait St. was universally known as was...The Gut ! Dek.
Laugh, and the wife laughs with you. Snore and you`ll sleep alone.
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31/05/2009, 8:39 AM
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gardener
Joined on 04/10/2007
Posts 2,626
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If I remember correctly it was the police who argued for the clubs to be concentrated in one place so that they could police them more easily.
P of Wales Street was a fine street and designed I believe to provide a route to the station and to give a good impression of the city. If you look above the doors of the clubs and arcades you can see who is making the money- one used to be owned by a well known prospective casino owner I think. I can't imagine quite what the planners were thinking of allowing the street to tumble into the pits by pernitting not only arcades and clubs in too large numbers but also tyre fitting work shops. It is the main pedestrian route from the station and should be attractive to tourists as well as locals.
It is time to shut down clubs prone to violence and to restrict late admissions. It is my observation ( although I am far too old for the club scene ) that far too many people get tanked up in cheaper establishments earlier in the evening and don't hit the clubs till very late by which time they have spent a lot of hours in a state of inebriation. Clubbing is a fashion- I would have thought quite a tired old one by now- and there is no reason why the licensing and entertainment laws could not be tightened up if they cause a public nuisance or a danger.If it wasn't costing me money on my council tax to police I wouldn't care, but it is, and it is only the club owners and breweries/distilleries who are benefitting from it. No one outside a small clique of promoters and hard core followers has problem with tight restrictions on raves or festivals.
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01/06/2009, 11:07 AM
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Scaramouche
Joined on 02/04/2006
obscure
Posts 1,935
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To me the descriptive of clubbing in a Norwich nite-life context has always induced images of shaven-haired young men weilding baseball bats.
Shamefully, my fantasy is perilously close to the truth. But the violence in Norwich's late night tribal enclaves is disturbingly less than mindless. There's a very nasty pattern to it, which often sees victims selected from those who don't fit the predominant age and social template.
The latest was a forty six year old man, for instance, and many might ponder what a person of that age was doing outside the Chicago Rock Cafe at 2.30 in the morning?
The answer is - he was being slain.
But is, despite all evidence to the contrary, the Prince of Wales road really a safe place for a night out?
Chief Supt. Bob Scully certainly thinks so
'Having a night out on Prince of Wales Road is a very safe, very good
experience. We are working to ensure that it is. We have additional
patrols on Friday and Saturday nights and we target them where they are
needed. It is a very safe place to go out. My children go out here'.
CS Scully no doubt believes that Afghanistan is akin to Romper Room, or that Beirut is a euphemism for Mothercare. And his children may well be tolerably safe, so long as they party in numbers surrounded by a peer support group.
But travel solo, wearing the wrong uniform or otherwise failing to fit the pattern, and you could find waking up in casualty could be one of the more beneficial results.
Norwich needs to tighten up quickly before the body count gets even bigger..
That means a zero tolenrance to voilence - even at the scuffling preliminary to the hard stuff. And on the subject of hard stuff- we need a fully enforced ban on carrying and consuming booze in the streets.
Then they need to look again at the sheer number of licensed clubs in this booze and bashing ghetto. A problem often becomes unmanageable when it reaches critical mass. Corraling trouble-makers in one small part of the city may well reflect a modern police methology for prefered man-management, but less overtime won't trade happily against a higher death toll.
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01/06/2009, 11:56 AM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 3,173
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I second your thoughts Scaramouche, what I like to know is who is subsedising Julian Fosters words? Has he received a free dispensation throughout the PoW establishments?
It is questionable that his words reflect most of the views in that area anymore, never mind the whole of the City and this is the first time I heard him utter noncholance and peace and quiet in unison with the police, so what is going on?
Is this a summer ploy, i.e. lets wait until the summer holidays are over?
They drink too much and are served more when they are already paralytic, if clubs would be patrolled by civilians who report such bad management problems and lack of oversight on staff, if that is followed by a shut down of premises fro six hours, Instantly, so they will loose serious money through it, then circumstances will change. Violence and killings will happen werever alcohol is abused en masse.
Here we can see the difference, clubs who disperse alcohol, verses, raves who might have some alcohol, but who are mainly people who want to have a great time out dancing. They do not kill each other, they dance.
The police says Prince of Wales road is peacefull and quiet, bar the occaisionmal killing, stabbing and fighting, that is, not to mention a regular stream of injured, half drunks clogging up the A&E, threatening hospital staff, another fact of this problem area.
Currently, so I have been told, there is another deadly trend that is making the rounds, some of them mix prescription drugs like ketamine, a tranquiliser of strenght, with alcohol, resulting in a very messed up person not responding to sense.
How many times did our hospitals operations and normal functions been stretched due to the weekly fall out from Prince of Wales road? A question our newspaper should ask.
Would the Prince of Wales disassociate himself with the road? Even ask that his name to be withdrawn, maybe that would give Authorities a hint as to what needs doing here. nevermind
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02/06/2009, 9:12 AM
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gardener
Joined on 04/10/2007
Posts 2,626
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What prats use a drug that is meant for horses? I hear that although it is popular it does have the draw back of relaxing muscles so much that users $hit themselves or at worst are unable to breathe- another problem for the emergency services to cope with.
Makes the occasional puff pale by comparison- are kids mental these days?
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EDP24 Forums » EDP24 General » News » Prince Of Wales Road
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