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 18/09/2009, 7:42 AM
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john
Joined on 07/08/2007
Posts 1,887
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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Simple reason for that is the land at Horsey is owned by the National Trust and they have got no chance of grabbing the land.Waxham and Horsey are well protected by the National Trust and with all of the SSIs in place it should be one of the safest areas in Norfolk for wildlife except for the fact that you have got the likes of the E.A. R.S.P.B.and the B.A. who are quite willing to abandon the area.John
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22/09/2009, 9:14 AM
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Storm
 
Joined on 27/07/2009
Posts 377
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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British rivers are dying.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6843745.ece
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8267686.stm
Mark Avery, director of conservation at the RSPB, said: “These alarming figures show just how far we have got to tackle the problems. There are just five rivers in pristine condition left and they are all in some of the least densely populated corners of the country.
“Elsewhere we are having a devastating impact on our waterways, Pollution from agriculture, over-abstraction and poor town planning are all threatening an extremely important habitat for wildlife, Otters, water voles, kingfishers and more than 30 species of fish rely on our rivers.”
So what impact are the proposed housing plans going to have on Norfolk's rivers/broads?
The picture below shows the river Bure just below Buxton Mill taken on Sept 11 2009.
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It is nothing more than a stream in places with little flow or depth, completely clogged up with weed and about half normal width, and not a fish to be seen. Yet less than 1/2 mile downstream water is being pumped on fields of potatoes at an incredible rate.
We have had just over 1- 1/2 months dry weather and the rivers are in this state what will happen with 33,000 more houses and a drought?
Quite simply it will spell the end of these beautiful waterways along with the wildlife etc.
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22/09/2009, 10:09 AM
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thelibrarian
Joined on 27/08/2009
Posts 392
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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To be honest that looks normal to me for that bit of river in a non wet year. Do you know that the irrigation is coming from the river- I would be very surprised since extraction from rivers during the summer is strictly controlled . It is most likely coming from under ground and since the river is likely surface water fed rather than all spring fed for the most part the irrigation is unlikely to be the cause. The cause- well have you not noticed that it has not rained for weeks and weeks? We have had a very prolonged dry spell and low rainfall since spring.That stuff is not just being autumnal it is dying? That is why the rivers are looking poorly at the moment
As for the EU rules -ha. You will be lucky to get taters and corn if they have their way, having plucked nitrate restrictions out of thin air apparently and without really working out how much nitrates from farm land does get into rivers, what are natural background levels and at what level it does harm ( one of the most flourishing rivers I know is in an arable area, kingfishers in abundance etc- but then it doesn't get industrial or human effluent in it ) They soon wont allow a cow to have a carp within a 100 yards of a ditch.
I am in full agreement with you on the matter of overdevelopment and the impact on the water reserves and waterways of the county , and on the general principle of taking care of all our waterways and minimising the impact of all pollutants but never underestimate the ability of agencies such as the EU, RSPB, Environment Agency, English Nature to get a bee in their bonnet and make an issue out of something that might give them something to do, more control, more power over existing bodies, more jobs for the boys etc and to provide creative statistics and reporting to justify their ends.
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22/09/2009, 11:51 AM
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thelibrarian
Joined on 27/08/2009
Posts 392
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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What sort of bad state did she mean?Polluted? Uncared for? Some of our previously relatively untouched rivers are in bad states precisely because they have been carelessly dredged . How are water voles going to survive when the reed margined banks of slow moving rivers are dredged out and canalised to get water away faster because fool planners have allowed houses on flood plains. A slow meandering state is surely natural for our Norfolk rivers- not exactly any Niagaras for them to plunge over are there- and it is that state in which the wild life has lived for a long time. The old boats and wherries never had a deep draught and didn't need a lot of depth.
As for otters- well pesticides probably played a part but also sewage discharged untreated as well as fools trapping and shooting because of coarse fishing. Sewage treatment works have a lot to answer for IMO and I would be pleased to seee them scrutinised. Also careless unbunded storage of chemicals and farm slurry.
Mind you - I remember travelling across yorkshire and lancashire in my younger days and seeing rivers and drains running all colours of the rainbow. I suspect that in industrial areas some rivers are cleaner than they have been for 200 years.
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23/09/2009, 8:08 AM
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john
Joined on 07/08/2007
Posts 1,887
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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We have the River Soar the Biam and the Grand Union Canal flowing through here.The canal is silted up and overgrown with weeds etc.with a depth of little ove 3'.Meanwhile the rivers,although weeded up are fairly fast flowing and take away the flood water.That is fine but the streams leading into the rivers from the flood plains are so overgrown with weeds,blocked in parts by shopping trolley's and you name it it is in there,the streams are not doing the job they are supposed to do.But what would happen if these streams and brooks were suddenly cleared.There would be widespread flooding in the winter because the actual rivers would not be able to cope.Again we come back as to why the brooks and streams have not been cleared out.One guess! We might disturb the wildlife and nesting birds.So we get grants to make a wildlife haven leaving the brooks and streams as they are.The RSPB were complaining about birds nests being damaged by flood water and the birds eggs and chicks perishing but whose fault is that if they oppose every move to clean up the brooks and streams.John
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23/09/2009, 9:29 AM
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thelibrarian
Joined on 27/08/2009
Posts 392
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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This reflects in part what has happened on Welney Wash. Years ago this was well kept , dredging done on the Bedford , ditches dug, hedges and scrub cut, grazed in summer and a catch for flood water in winter. Amazing place for wildfowl in winter and the most rare wading birds in spring and summer. Along come all the RSPB and co who don't know how to manage grassland or ditches and let the place go to hang and the EA who won't dredge the river ( for all manner of silly reasons- look at Welney website) and who allow a sluice to be put in that lets things silt up.So Welney wash stays flooded for longer, the wading birds can't nest and next thing the RSPB and other agencies want decent farmland to provide nesting areas for the birds that cant nest on the Washes. Sheer bad management of an incredible place by utter tools.
And the shame of it is, before long all the people who know how things were, how they should be and how they should be done will be gone and we will be left with people making it up from behind desks or the seat of a new landrover.
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23/09/2009, 10:17 AM
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Scaramouche
Joined on 02/04/2006
obscure
Posts 1,935
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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Scaramouche Towers is surrounded by 'wildlife sanctuaries' although its an odd irony that there seemed to be a lot more wildlife before things were thus sanctified.
Almost every day and all year round we are visited by city and suburban dwellers who drive up in their gunmetal Volvos, Audis and French MPVs, alighting to display their expensive uniforms of outdoor leisure-ware. Then they strap on their Japanese binocculars and digital cameras and its off into the watery landscape to have fun.
Often they bring their dogs too, which seems odd when you take account of a recent Suffolk Wildlife Trust survey that revealed that birdlife suffers the most disruption from the invasion of doglife. I've nothing against the Royal Society for the Prevention of Boating, but they obviously prefer donations to the prospect of alienating the dog-lovers.
And I do think the RSPB could do more in terms of handing out a reality check on the realities of country life and the law of the riverbank.
Like publicising the annual goose cull for instance.
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23/09/2009, 11:19 AM
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john
Joined on 07/08/2007
Posts 1,887
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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Gooseing in Norfolk Scary.That should bring in the tourists.We have dogging here.In either case it desturbs the dickie birds.No wonder the old cock sparrow is so popular.John
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24/09/2009, 8:27 AM
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Storm
Joined on 27/07/2009
Posts 377
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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24/09/2009, 8:46 AM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 3,173
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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Cross border efforts eh, what a prospect indeed, we don't need to get ready for a storm surge inundating the fenlands, the German Dutch and Belgiums will be ready and waiting to help us, what a delight.
meanwhile the EA and the BA are still fussing over our low flowing rivers, trying to make out that at least, they are clean, that there is hardly any water in them is not news at all.
If you think food prices are high now, think again, if the fenlands, even in parts get flooded with saltwater, you will see doubling and quadrupling of already high prices. Waiting for the boy to fall into the well before we put a lid on it, thats our policy, nobody thinks ahead, pre caution seems to be a chinese proverb out of fashion. nevermind
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24/09/2009, 9:28 AM
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Storm
Joined on 27/07/2009
Posts 377
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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 nevermind wrote: | |
If you think food prices are high now, think again, if the fenlands, even in parts get flooded with saltwater, you will see doubling and quadrupling of already high prices. Waiting for the boy to fall into the well before we put a lid on it, thats our policy, nobody thinks ahead, pre caution seems to be a chinese proverb out of fashion. nevermind |
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I don't know nevermind maybe the authorities are thinking ahead when they are planning all these new houses around Rackheath, Wroxham, Thorpe, and surrounding area. I get the picture they are building these properties in readiness for the evacuees from the East Coast, and parts of Broadland like Potter Heigham, Hickling, Horsey, ETC, once the inevitable North sea surge hits. I might even end up with Scary as a near neighbour...........Quick strengthen the sea defences stop the gravel extraction this surge must be stopped at all costs.
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24/09/2009, 10:00 AM
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thelibrarian
Joined on 27/08/2009
Posts 392
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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Oh dear me what doom merchants. Even at the height of the 1953 floods the saltwater incursions were not huge . You may think they were more extensive than they were because there were so many deaths- but a lot of those were because people were living in post war temporary accommodation close to the sea and estuary . But the flood waters did not go that far over Marshland and the salt was good for the beet crops in later years!
Of course the threat grows as sea levels rise and no one would like to see the water up the side of Walpole Church as high as some of the marks recording historic floods, but the banks are there and holding. The people who traditionally look after the Fens do think ahead and they know that the Fens get flooded by fresh water especially when the rivers break their banks because the waters are held back by high tides in the North Sea. The safety of the Fens depends as much on getting the water out as it does on keeping the sea out.
And the new houses at Rackheath etc aren't for us- do you know how many people live in Horsey and Hickling etc? Not many. Any developments will be occupied by move ins and Norfolk young people displaced from their home villages by the financial clout of move ins.
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24/09/2009, 2:15 PM
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john
Joined on 07/08/2007
Posts 1,887
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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I don't know about doom merchants but I think that people should be worried.If the various organisations get their way and a sea lock is installed near Potter Heigham do you really think that this would hold the sea back.I was thinking of the sea lock at Oulton Broad.I have seen some horrific photographs of floods where the sea has bypassed the lock and flooded everything in sight.John
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24/09/2009, 5:53 PM
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thelibrarian
Joined on 27/08/2009
Posts 392
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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A sea lock would not do it John , it would have to be a big llong bank with a causeway on top from the Repps side to the Fritton side with a sluice in it- a bit like the Wash banks down at Clenchwarton etc. Aside from the basic argument about whether it is the right thing to do, I feel (but I don't know), that if the sea did come in there it would be broken up by sand banks and not open rough sea, especially if the Thurne was still prevented from discharging out to sea. There wouldn't be the fresh water running out like there is at Breydon to scour a channel so it might stay a brackish lagoon I can't remember what English Nature ( boo hiss) thought the outcome would be- something on those lines I think
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EDP24 Forums » EDP24 General » News » R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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