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24/10/2009, 9:45 AM thelibrarian Joined on 27/08/2009 Posts 394 Inconvenienced? Breckland eyeing up Swaffham's only public loos for closure apparently. Victorian and Edwardian communities were proud to open public loos , recognising them as being important for public health but our councils can't manage to work something out so that the elderly, pregnant, mothers with little tots and those with ailments can actually visit a town with out worrying about getting caught short. What is happening to this country so that  the basic needs of the average person is so easily disregarded? Pushing the burden onto businesses, pubs and cafes and shops is not good enough. MacDonalds and Palmers in GY are an example of two places which carry the burden of shoppers using their facilities because the loos in GY shut very early and are inconveniently placed. Swaffham has a market and a bit of a tourist trade- why should councillors think that people want to seek out a shop with a loo rather than use a proper convenience. Maybe some of the money from here, the payments from waste recycling, should be used for loos instead of frittered away on daft projects. http://www.edp24.co.uk/content/edp24/news/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=News&tBrand=EDPOnline&tCategory=xDefault&itemid=NOED23%20Oct%202009%2013%3A42%3A51%3A873 I wonder if everyone on Breckland council a Jag driving hotel bar using bloke who never walks more than a few yards from his home or business? If not, I hope for their sakes, that their prostates stay in good order., especially if they intend to be in Swaffham.    Report

25/10/2009, 2:20 PM Lynda Joined on 22/03/2004 Norwich Posts 2,721 Re: Inconvenienced? I agree we should have more public toilets. I don't know much about Breckland but Norwich seems to be reducing the amount of public toilets. The city centre is alright during shopping hours, especially with the two Malls being open, but many people find the toilets hard to access anyway. There used to be a toilet in Brigg Street end of Gentlemen's Walk - the sort which you had to pay to use and the door opened when you put the coin in. That has disappeared. The Forum toilets were handy in the evening but apparently they are only really for the library users (presumably also for those exhibitors etc. who have stalls in the atrium) and the loos have to be closed just after the library closes. There used to be toilets at the bottom of Grapes Hill but there is now a building which the Council appear to have forgotten about. When I used to volunteer at a charity shop (now closed) in St Benedict's we had loads of people asking to use our toilet but we were not permitted to allow them to use it as our loo was upstairs and we didn't have enough staff to show them up there. (There was also a security worry about that as well). It could be that someone visiting a town or wherever will find all shops are reluctant to permit strangers using their loos - which may be near stock or money. I have noticed some cafes in Norwich do not have a customer toilet, nor are they near a public toilet, which I thought was illegal. Lynda  Technology is great when it works.    Report

25/10/2009, 2:36 PM thelibrarian Joined on 27/08/2009 Posts 394 Re: Inconvenienced? There is in fact an organisation devoted to ensuring that the public has enough loos for the sake of public health and access. I think the pub trade is taking up a lot of the slack on this in towns and villages, now that opening hours are longer. Strikes me if councils can run a car park they can run loos- no one minds paying. If a seaside councils want winter toursim for instance they ought to see to it that the facilities are there and open.    Report

25/10/2009, 3:59 PM ChristopherE Joined on 04/01/2006 Posts 1,911 Re: Inconvenienced? You can use a loo.. Richmond in Surrey has tried this. Signs on Pub and shop windows. Not always popular with the shops/pubs.  If in extremis I will always buy a pint.Which just makes me more portly,  as Wallis so kindly described the suave gent that I am . I came across a proper "pissoir" exploring the jewellery area  in Birmingham.  I just had to use it even though I had no need!  I had never seen anything like it in England. I even took Mrs E to view the masterpiece of design and utility the next day when she had finished her business. That type was not for girls though! ce    Report

25/10/2009, 5:51 PM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 3,173 Re: Inconvenienced?  Lynda wrote: I agree we should have more public toilets. I don't know much about Breckland but Norwich seems to be reducing the amount of public toilets. The city centre is alright during shopping hours, especially with the two Malls being open, but many people find the toilets hard to access anyway. There used to be a toilet in Brigg Street end of Gentlemen's Walk - the sort which you had to pay to use and the door opened when you put the coin in. That has disappeared. The Forum toilets were handy in the evening but apparently they are only really for the library users (presumably also for those exhibitors etc. who have stalls in the atrium) and the loos have to be closed just after the library closes. There used to be toilets at the bottom of Grapes Hill but there is now a building which the Council appear to have forgotten about. When I used to volunteer at a charity shop (now closed) in St Benedict's we had loads of people asking to use our toilet but we were not permitted to allow them to use it as our loo was upstairs and we didn't have enough staff to show them up there. (There was also a security worry about that as well). It could be that someone visiting a town or wherever will find all shops are reluctant to permit strangers using their loos - which may be near stock or money. I have noticed some cafes in Norwich do not have a customer toilet, nor are they near a public toilet, which I thought was illegal.   So whats Norwich Green party policy for public convenmiences then. How abpout a loo campaign then? I know its not recycling but it could be... The loos at the bottom of Grapes Hill could be looking so much better painted Green by some eager councillors wanting to shine, and I am suire that if you place one of these rotating strobe lights on top,, without the sound that is, everyone will know and find it. Not having toilets means you do not have to have staff to look after them. Now count how many are employed to look after toilets, versus those who are paid to look after the gardens and roundabouts and flowers and then see what needs changing in City care and their over bearing contract. nevermind    Report

25/10/2009, 8:58 PM thelibrarian Joined on 27/08/2009 Posts 394 Re: Inconvenienced? it is a long time since the offspring were small enough to express an urgent desire to "go" when most remote from a convenience, but  being out and about with the father in law lately, who has a bit of difficulty needing a bit of haste now and then, made me realise how poor the provision is these days. Quite frankly I would rather see another well signed  decent public loo or two in our towns than roundabouts with small forests on them which only serve to block the view of oncoming traffic. If the Castle Mall, Debenhams, Chapelfield, Jarrolds and MacDonalds amongst others can maintain loos for their customers why can't the city manage to do so- even if it means opening one in City Hall. They want visitors, they want shoppers, but don't want to provide enough facilities. Its a basic decency. They moan about people piddling in shop doorways at night but have been happy to collect the business rates from the pubs and clubs that sold the piddle in its unprocessed state! The same applies to major roads- one has to brazen a Little Chef or similar for lack of alongside route facilities. And now Little Chef has been selling off their businesses not a few former " comfort stops" are boarded up. Oh dear , grumpy old gitdom approaches at speed.    Report

26/10/2009, 8:01 AM BT Joined on 26/07/2005 Norwich Posts 51 Re: Inconvenienced? Your comment about Little Chef brings to mind that about 4 years ago they had notices saying that Toilets were for customers only. It didn't make much difference as people used them anyway, its hard to enforce such a restriction. What mystifies me is that even when organisations allow access people abuse the facilities and cause damage. You can't blame shops etc restricting access. When I lived in London, the local MacDonalds had to control access with a staff operated button behind the counter, a bit like banks have for their security doors. This all because the local 'Yoof' felt it necessary to misuse the facilities. BT    Report

26/10/2009, 9:18 AM thelibrarian Joined on 27/08/2009 Posts 394 Re: Inconvenienced? I have had an establishment tell me that and my response was that planning permissions were given for service areas beside roads so that they provided services for the public regardless of whether they were customers or not. I have no idea if this is the case but one suspects it must have been the intention- if not why are there no public toilets at most of the motorway service areas? There is a place on the A17 which was formerly a fast food establishment at a service area but is now a budget hotel open only to residents so that is one "pit stop" gone When I see lorry drivers parked up in laybys with curtains closed obviously trying to sleep it I wonder why there are so few places for lorries beside out A roads- you would think it would aid road safety if they had decent places to pull in, eat and rest up.    Report

26/10/2009, 9:55 AM Lynda Joined on 22/03/2004 Norwich Posts 2,721 Re: Inconvenienced? <BLOCKQUOTE><table width="85%"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/CS/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">&nbsp;<strong>thelibrarian wrote:</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4"><br>it is a long time since the offspring were small enough to express an urgent desire to "go" when most remote from a convenience, but  being out and about with the father in law lately, who has a bit of difficulty needing a bit of haste now and then, made me realise how poor the provision is these days. <br>Quite frankly I would rather see another well signed  decent public loo or two in our towns than roundabouts with small forests on them which only serve to block the view of oncoming traffic.<br>If the Castle Mall, Debenhams, Chapelfield, Jarrolds and MacDonalds amongst others can maintain loos for their customers why can't the city manage to do so- even if it means opening one in City Hall. They want visitors, they want shoppers, but don't want to provide enough facilities. Its a basic decency. They moan about people piddling in shop doorways at night but have been happy to collect the business rates from the pubs and clubs that sold the piddle in its unprocessed state!<br>The same applies to major roads- one has to brazen a Little Chef or similar for lack of alongside route facilities.<br>And now Little Chef has been selling off their businesses not a few former " comfort stops" are boarded up.<br><br>Oh dear , grumpy old gitdom approaches at speed.<br><br></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE> I agree about lack of toilets on major roads. For several years, approximately twice a year, I used to drive to my sister's in Lincolnshire. She used to ask why I didn't take a packed lunch with me. I told her that, with having to drive approximately 105 miles to her house, it was difficult to do so without a "pit-stop" and there were no loos outside of eating places. I therefore felt it unnecessary to take a packed lunch as I felt obliged to eat at whichever place I stopped at. I stopped going to Little Chef as the tea became undrinkable so I started going elsewhere. I was forced to sell my car, due to financial reasons, in August so I will either have to use trains or coaches to visit my sister (hopefully with loos) so a packed lunch may well be an advantage. Many people drive along the A47/A17 so why don't the Highways Agency provide public toilets? Lynda  Technology is great when it works.    Report

26/10/2009, 10:12 AM SHRIMPER Joined on 28/07/2008 Posts 896 Re: Inconvenienced? However long did this 105 mile trek take you? I used to drive further than that at times just to get to work. Never stopped for a packed lunch along the way though. Pee> drive> arrive> pee> work. Pee> drive> arrive> Pee> Shower> food> Pub> pints> many Pee's > home > Pee > Bed > up in night, yes you've got it, Pee. In the morning repeat the tasks of the day before.    Report

26/10/2009, 11:22 AM john Joined on 07/08/2007 Posts 1,889 Re: Inconvenienced? I agree with you Lynda.We drove from Caister to Leicester last Saturday along the A47 via Downham Market and there is not one public toilet.There are two Mc.Donalds on route but a notice says.Toilets for customers use only.Is this a ploy to make you buy a meal at a Mc.Donalds or similar?John    Report

26/10/2009, 12:49 PM SHRIMPER Joined on 28/07/2008 Posts 896 Re: Inconvenienced? Is this a ploy to make you buy a meal at a Mc.Donalds or similar?John Be fair John they are in the meal business, if that's what they call it, and not supplying toilet facilities to itinerant travellers. Myself I would rather do as the bears do than use a public loo. On the occasions in the past that I have had to use one they have been absolutely appalling, why, the great British public.    Report

26/10/2009, 2:30 PM thelibrarian Joined on 27/08/2009 Posts 394 Re: Inconvenienced? You see that's where I take issue with these places and it wold be nice to know what the planners say. Many of the service areas are in open countryside, not very pretty and were given permission so that they could service the needs of the travelling public. One would expect being able to use a loo to be in amongst those services and if planners have not included that proviso in the permissions it is great shame Still, one could always buy the cheapest McMuffin or little Chef bar of chocolate, but it is the principle of the thing. I see that the two sites either side of the Tuddenham by pass are up for sale/development again, bang in the middle of the countryside and not many yards from a couple of laybys with picnic tables from which a public loo is conspicuously absent. One wonders why those particular pit stops are deemed necessary when a good sign could direct traffic to a service area just off the A47 called Tescos ( is it 24 hour?) Having rattled on about the lack of public conveniences beside roads I am aware that some have been threatened with closure because their use had diversified.    Report

01/11/2009, 4:54 PM Lynda Joined on 22/03/2004 Norwich Posts 2,721 Re: Inconvenienced? <BLOCKQUOTE><table width="85%"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/CS/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">&nbsp;<strong>SHRIMPER wrote:</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4">However long did this 105 mile trek take you? I used to drive further than that at times just to get to work. Never stopped for a packed lunch along the way though. Pee> drive> arrive> pee> work. Pee> drive> arrive> Pee> Shower> food> Pub> pints> many Pee's > home > Pee > Bed > up in night, yes you've got it, Pee. In the morning repeat the tasks of the day before.</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE> It is good you have such control - my brother-in-law can do the same thing - he doesn't stop if he drives from mine to their house. He would need to if I was with him though - I would need the "pit stop"! Lynda  Technology is great when it works.    Report

01/11/2009, 5:22 PM Richard Joined on 08/01/2004 Posts 274 Re: Inconvenienced?   Suppose you could take your own.      Live your Dream Ask me how?    Report

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